As the bond market unravels, Bitcoin emerges as the new base layer for a deflationary, AI-driven financial system.
Maryland Hodl argues we’re nearing a “bond revolt” that forces the U.S. to sacrifice the bond market, accelerating a shift from an inflationary, debt-based system to a deflationary, AI-driven economy anchored by Bitcoin as a neutral reserve asset. Stablecoins and Bitcoin-backed “BitBonds” form a sovereign flywheel: Treasury borrows cheaply (1–2%) while investors capture real returns via Bitcoin’s volatility, effectively building a Bitcoin yield curve and repricing the cost of money. As correlations break and social “vibrations” intensify, a bifurcated world emerges (West→Bitcoin, East→gold), with U.S. reindustrialization and front-end duration management signaling a wartime economy. Individually, the advice is simple, buy Bitcoin, because it serves both personal sovereignty and the bridge that may enable a soft landing.
“The U.S. government is going to have to sacrifice the bond market.”
“We have an inflationary system heading toward a deflationary one run by AI, with Bitcoin as its monetary base unit.”
“The world doesn’t have a debt problem. We have a collateral problem.”
“BitBonds let the government borrow at 1–2% while investors earn 15–18%.”
“Once the government treats Bitcoin as pristine collateral, it’s game over.”
“Bitcoin’s true value might not be monetary, it could be the return of trust to society.”
“If you want to help accelerate the transition, just buy Bitcoin.”
“Humility is the key. Bitcoin forces you to question everything you’ve been told.”
The conversation presents a coherent transition playbook: embed Bitcoin into sovereign finance via stablecoins and BitBonds to reprice liabilities against absolute scarcity, restore credible collateral, and guide markets toward a deflationary, AI-enabled era. If policy makers embrace this top-down integration, they can manufacture a softer landing, moving duration, stabilizing funding, and catalyzing a reflexive shift where institutions recognize Bitcoin as pristine collateral. The stakes are high, failure risks social fracture, success unlocks an abundance trajectory, but either way, Bitcoin’s role as the base layer of trust and settlement appears inevitable.
0:00 - Intro
0:57 - Systemic vibrations and economic pressure signals
9:14 - Wartime economy and Western Hemisphere focus
13:25 - Energy infrastructure and industrial policy bottlenecks
15:32 - Obscura & Bitkey
17:16 - Monetary breakdown and manipulated Fed data
25:02 - Stablecoins, bitbonds, and the silent coup framework
35:46 - SLNT & Unchained
37:12 - Sovereign flywheel and volatility harvesting mechanics
43:38 - Neutering the Fed and Wall Street adoption tipping point
48:21 - Social cohesion and transition pathways
52:50 - Top-down adoption and Bitcoin's dual purpose
1:01:26 - Humility, trust machine, and questioning everything
1:15:58 - Pilot programs and creative destruction as the only way out
(00:00) the US government's going to have to sacrifice the bond market. And he put a timeline of six to nine months from his vantage point. The government can basically get its 1 or 2% borrowing rate, but the investor can get its 15 to 18% and it's going to be close to $3 trillion just to get the grid up to where it needs to be.
(00:19) So, we have an inflationary system that is basically heading towards a deflationary system run by AI with a monetary base unit of Bitcoin. We're going to have bifurcated economic zones where it's going to be western hemisphere versus eastern. If you look at what Sailor's doing, he's developing a Bitcoin yield curve. seems like this would be the perfect entity to essentially do like a bit bond pilot.
(00:37) Imagine when Wall Street with the deepest capital market starts doing the same thing, structuring it with real estate, similar to what you've been talking about or what Grant Cardone is talking about. The world doesn't have a debt problem. We have a collateral problem. What if ultimately Bitcoin was established to start bringing trust back to government and we go into kind of an age of abundance? Basically, all marginal costs are driven to zero because of AI and advancements in AI.
(00:58) Marilyn Hutddle, the the vibration feels off. Certainly does. Certainly does, doesn't it, M? It does. That's where uh that's where we were just talking about. I think we start here, the vibration feeling off. This is sort of a a grown theme. I've seen you tweet about um Dark Side, who was on the show earlier this summer, tweet about uh let's jump into that.
(01:25) is this idea of systemic vibrations as a leading indicator for potential turmoil on the horizon. Yeah. And you a lot of the the work I I've been doing is I'm a a listener. So for the last 5 years since I kind of stumbled into this space I I listen um I watch podcast. I combing Twitter.
(01:53) Um, I'm in spaces listening just to different ideas and seeing where things are breaking down at. You know, a couple of the people that I really like to follow as of late. Um, who I think has been pretty much spot on for years is Luke Gorman, right? and his most recent um podcast that he did. Basically, he started alluded to, you know, from his vantage point, it looks like the the system's breaking down and there's going to be a bond revolt and essentially the US government's going to have to sacrifice the bond market um for a variety of different reasons.
(02:22) And he put a uh a timeline of 6 to9 months from his vantage point, right? you have economic and geopolitical risks that are basically growing in the market and it's going to hit a head at some point. Um, you know, and then you you take Jack Mer's uh Monday podcast that he just recently released, right? He dives into the fact that austerity doesn't work. Um, you know, we're seeing the examples of that in Argentina currently.
(02:54) Um if you extrapolate further and take that into the United States like we're seeing a continuation of all these efforts um that are basically fruitless and the shaping that I put out this week was basically that the government in my opinion Bitcoin's already won right um the government is out of options and that the industrial system that we have grown going to basically embrace over the last since the 1900s.
(03:27) You know, GDP is we have an inflationary system that is basically heading towards a deflationary system run by AI with a monetary base unit uh of Bitcoin. Um which in my opinion is the only monetary asset that can work in a system of deflation. So what we're seeing is these systemic fractures that are happening across society and you can see it even socially right with the cultural wars.
(03:56) Um I think that they they're becoming more frequent which you can essentially equate back to the vibration that you're discussing about. Um and it's becoming more noticeable by even the everyday individual. Right. So, I think society as a whole is starting to wake up to the idea that something's wrong. The financial markets certainly are.
(04:18) I mean, correlations are breaking down across the board. Um, historical norms that have basically been in place for um decades, even generations are no longer holding up. Um, you know, I think we have a a potentially a real crisis on our hands. And you know, I spend a lot of time thinking um I think you have young kids. I have a a three-year-old.
(04:45) And as a father during this stage, early child development, um you start thinking more about what the future's going to hold for your child. So, a lot of my work and effort has been basically focused around a transition, right? What is the transition going to look like from an inflationary system to a deflationary system? How do we avoid all the issues with the for turning and you know what are the issues like the death and destruction, right? Entering into another World War II scenario or before that a civil war and before that
(05:16) the revolutionary war, right? And but now we're in a at a global scale with different types of weapons, right? That can ultimately end society. So my thought process has been I look at Bitcoin as a tool for self- sovereignty but also a tool to be utilized potentially or designed to help us transition through this system.
(05:40) But to your point, the vibrations are getting um more violent and um I think they're becoming undeniable by even the average person across the board. Yeah. Yeah, I mean outside of the culture wars and the social incohesion which seems obvious. I think one sort of anecdotal data point or data points that I've really leaned on over the last two three years specifically are the um the selfie videos of people sitting in their cars complaining about a myriad of different things whether it's the grocery bill, health insurance,
(06:18) car insurance, the inability to afford a house in the first place. I mean, those are accelerating and who knows if they're just sort of attentiongrabbing things that people are trying to leverage on TikTok to get sympathy or feel like their voice is being heard or get some attention. But I I feel like it's very clear that I I do think there's signal there in the sense that people are really feeling the the burden of the the economic pressure uh and then this gap between the rich and the poor accelerating. Um, but in in terms of
(06:54) systemic vibrations like within the system, what specifically are you looking at? I mean, you mentioned Mers earlier this week talking about austerity doesn't work in the context of Argentina. Obviously, the Treasury just opened up a swap line with them for $50 billion um to sort of lessen the blow, the austerity that they've implemented throughout the country over the last few years.
(07:20) Um, what else are you looking at? Right. Well, I think you just highlighted the the micro and the macro, right? And you know, again, I go back to to what I've been saying is I listen a lot. So, and then I I take more of a theoretical approach to being like the the system the money's broken. So, the incentive structures are distorted and misaligned across society.
(07:42) you know, I mean, because the money's broken, the um the average American, it's more difficult also with the regulatory environment to to start a new job, right? For the average American, I'm not talking about in the digital economy, um where individuals that are resourceful can basically whip up a business in a couple days and kind of get network effects. But in the real world, it's difficult.
(08:06) And I see that with family members, I see that with friends. Um, and I I don't the rest of society I spend a lot of time focusing on kind of the convergence of AI and Bitcoin as I I indicated, but um we have this amazing tool in front of us um basically with AI and I use it a lot.
(08:38) I even I mean I use it medium a medium for me that has never really been um one that I've utilized has been writing but I use AI for my writing you know that's and that's not lost um on me but the importance of that is the fact that I can throw ideas in the system and I can have active conversations with it and then I can start connecting the dots on various things right but if you look across the fabric of society right now Um, you know, from my perspective, I'm seeing distortions.
(09:08) I can't really put a finger on exactly those distortions, but you kind of see them day in and day out. It doesn't matter where you look. So, yeah. And to your earlier point about the federal government, the Fed, Treasury being backed into a corner and really having no other option than to send it on turbo and debase everything. rank.
(09:33) Well, I think we're heading to a wartime economy, right? I mean, the the defense department basically just changed their name to the War Department. Do I think it's going to lead to kinetic warfare? It could, but I think what we're doing is we're creating that sense of patriotic like, you know, Luke talked about it a little bit um in his macro podcast that he did, but I think we're heading towards more of a bifurcated world, right? Nobody's buying our debt.
(09:57) Um, you know, Europe's in a very difficult situation. I think they're technically functionally broke. Um, so in order to to kind of solve their economic wos, they're going to have to go to war. Uh, and that seems to be where they're they're heading. Um, and that leaves the US in a a pretty interesting predicament.
(10:19) So, you know, of course, we have our allies across the world in various countries, but um and we'll continue to protect them with those alignments, but I think the US is heading towards looks to be heading towards a direction where it's going to we're going to have bifurcated economic zones where it's going to be western hemisphere versus eastern and we're going to have to work together because we're still going to have um trade, but I think the US is going to potentially stop meddling. with other countries geopolitical wise
(10:50) um and start focusing on cleaning its own house and its own hemisphere. So that's why I see different things happening in Panama to Mexico to Canada to Argentina to now Venezuela um you know we're adding additional pressure to Brazil. I think what we're doing is trying to clean house in the western hemisphere.
(11:11) But these are all part of that vibration, right? Is basically um we're seeing movements that haven't historically happened that are are happening now again with more frequency. Yeah. And then domestically, you look at like the industrial policy that Trump's gone after. I was just pulling it up. Speaking of using AI, just doing some deep research here on the go.
(11:36) But Trump's taken equity positions in semiconductors, energy companies, critical minerals companies took a golden share, quote unquote golden share in US Steel under its acquisition by Nip and Steel. Um, so it seems like that push to re-industrialize the the homeland is is there. And I I guess that's my question is can they actually do it successfully? Like can the federal government pick the winners and losers in this reindustrialization and manifest a good outcome? I think I think if they have a sense of where they need where we're heading, right? If they know that
(12:12) AI is going to be revolutionary from my perspective to the degree I think it will be um for humanity. I think it's pretty easy. you're just investing up and down the supply chain, right? And um trying to control those resources. Now, do I think that's ethical or where the government should be? No.
(12:34) But again, it goes back to the whole idea that we're in a wartime economy, right? And that war is to be first. we have the war is basically over monetary base layer and kind of the reconfiguration of that um which is going to be a delicate matter uh but it's also around securing resources that we need for uh not just our economy domestic economy but for also for defense right and I don't know how much longer we can go with getting materials um from China um without a a solidified kind of trade agreement, right? And that seems to be up and down with how the
(13:18) administration basically has been kind of conveying that information to the public for for several months now. Yeah. Yeah. It's very positive because I mean particularly juxtaposed to China, you look at the head start that they have at the base layer.
(13:37) I would even put this below money or actually no, it's right above money which is energy. Like that's that's where I could see the the big hurdles coming is in the energy sector in terms of just simply not having the grid infrastructure, the transmission infrastructure in place to actually manifest a a scalable artificial intelligence boom in the United States. Agreed.
(14:03) I mean I think um it was worked with AI on it. Eric Rice commented on it the other day. Um, I said it was going to be about $2 trillion for my research in public infrastructure investment. It's going to have to happen on behalf of the government. Uh, so he corrected me and basically said, actually, if you run the numbers from a different vantage point, it's going to be close to $3 trillion, right? Just to get um the the grid up to where it needs to be without sacrificing kind of the domestic residential side. So, we're talking some
(14:37) really big numbers, right? Um, and we're also talking about having to do it at a very high pace speed, which I don't know if our economy is toolled to do so at this point, right? Again, it kind of plays into the the wartime economy, right? Um, I think there'll end up being mandates that basically say, you know, this is the direction in the country we have to go and it's about survival, right? We have to win this race.
(15:12) So, yeah, I'm not too much of a geopolitical, you know, this is just armchair, but um I certainly have some thoughts. Um, but I I think it's it's a global AI race and we have to win. And I think what we're seeing is the US government basically getting us ready to secure the Western Hemisphere and kind of reto our economy so that we we can do that. Sup Frank, this was brought to you by our good friends at Obscura.
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(16:34) You have one key on the hardware wallet, one key on your mobile device and block stores a key in the cloud for you. This is an incredible hardware device for your friends and family or maybe yourself who have Bitcoin on exchanges and have for a long time but haven't taken the step to self-custody because they're worried about the complications of setting up a private public key pair, securing that seed phrase, setting up a PIN, setting up a passphrase. Again, Bit Key makes it easy to use, hard to lose. It's the easiest zero to one step, your first
(17:02) step to self-custody. If you have friends and family on the exchanges who haven't moved it off, tell them to pick up a big key. Go to bit.world. Use the key TFTC20 at checkout for 20% off your order. That's bit.world code TFTC20. Yeah, I guess this is a good segue into the monetary aspect of it.
(17:24) I mean, transitioning from industrial sort of uh industrial policy in terms of making sure that we have the physical critical infrastructure in place. Obviously, the US dollar has been the reserve currency of the world. We've used that to our advantage uh over the last 50 years, specifically 54 years uh since we ripped uh the dollar off the gold standard officially in 1971.
(17:50) And obviously the veracity of the US dollar as the the reserve currency is coming into question um as we've gone into 37 almost 38 trillion of debt. I think I saw yesterday that we added 60 billion in a couple of days earlier this week to to the deficit. Um, and there's sort of two things at play. you have that physical industrial policy.
(18:14) Then it seems very clear if you have more than two brain cells just looking at what the priorities were the first 9 months of this administration that really rejiggering the monetary protocol and monetary system um that we've that we've leveraged for years is is a very high priority. It's actively breaking down, right? And we can see that in the bond offerings.
(18:38) Um, we can see it by them moving duration from the long end to the front end, right? And I empet coming in and essentially continuing Yellen's strategy, right? And I think it's because they're out of they're out of options. Um, on top of that, you can see it from um J Pal, right? his the market's reaction to his 50 basis point increase last year whether you agree with it or not.
(19:08) The bond market moved in the the wrong direction, right? His most recent cut bond market basically it's kind of been flat over the last year, but it basically again moved in the wrong direction, right? So I think the the Fed has essentially been in my opinion, my framework has been neutralized. um it it's not functional anymore to the way that it historically should be and I'm sure there'd be you know professional economics I would argue differently but um at least from my framework the again going back to those correlations breaking down um you know
(19:44) and the systemic vibrations that we're starting to see that Luke was alluding to with being like a kind of a bond revolt and potentially sacrificing the bond market um at expense of kind saving the system or pivoting to a new system. Um, I think that's essentially the the general direction we have to go in. We have to come up with other solutions.
(20:09) And I think that we're starting to to get, you know, I I tend to try to leave read the tea leaves at least through my framework um with some of the the ideas I'm throwing out there and not only try to make them logical, but also have them fit in what I'm viewing in the news or through the administration or through ideas that, you know, uh individuals such as yourself or Jack are basically putting out there.
(20:33) and kind of how I started coming up with some of the theories I'm putting out there now. Yeah. And I'm just pulling up this Porter Stanberry thread from yesterday. I thought he made a really good point. And to your point about the system breaking down and pulling the Fed into it specifically, I think that the fact that many of the decisions that are made at the Federal Reserve and and the Treasury are based off of completely manipulated economic data, particularly inflation, is really what has backed them into a corner. Makes them unable to actually implement policy that could turn things
(21:08) around. cuz if you're setting the Fed funds rate at using the tailor rule above what CPI is telling you inflation is like you're you're using the wrong metric to base that that rate off of. It's getting tough to be a traditional economist, right? Like you can't make the arguments like you used to.
(21:27) Like I mean uh who somebody came out yesterday and commented uh his name's going to escape me. It's his own team. You see a lot. Amir, do you know who? Amir. Yeah. Well, his the mustache. He looks like he's maybe Turkish. Oh, you mean Muhammad Alin? Correct.
(21:56) Um, and you know, he put a post out there is just reforming or uh strengthening the argument that JP Morgan put out basically calling Bitcoin the deflation trade, right? Or the debasement trade. the basement trade. Yeah. Um but you know, he's been a historically very strong traditional tradey type of economic economist and um even he's starting to change his tune, right? Um so yeah, it it's again going back to the vibrations, people can't ignore it anymore. Yeah.
(22:30) I'm just going to pull up this uh this Porter thread because I thought it was really good. I read this on my flight back yesterday, but diving into this, he does some great work. Yeah. And to your point on uh on Mohamad Alan, like he's been a Bitcoin hater and it's funny like he was referencing a JP Morgan like analyst report.
(22:53) I guess they they pulled their customers at JP Morgan like why are you allocating the Bitcoin and they were relaying that information and both JP Morgan and Muhammad Iran who have both been pretty bearish on Bitcoin for well over a decade sort of had to admit like people are we may not deem it to be the perfect alternative but many others our clients see it that way.
(23:15) Um, and to the point about like this is exactly why is because whether it's the fact that people explicitly understand this or just intuitively feel it, which I feel like the latter is uh is the case for most people. They just intuitit it. Um, but I think this point here about the Fed not being able to make good decisions. Like in plain English, he just explained the Taylor rule.
(23:38) It's 2% plus the current inflation rate. Using official CPI, the Taylor rule prescribes the current um 4.75% Fed fund rate. However, if you use actual inflation, the Taylor rule would set short-term rates at 17.5%. So, you just have this complete mispricing of of of risk and money. Risk and money. Correct.
(24:06) Um, well, I mean, if you want to take it to from a a Bitcoin lens, I mean, if you look at what Sailor's doing, he's developing a Bitcoin yield curve, right? And right now, he's currently trying to figure out in price where his stretch product is, right? Now, granted, you have some nuances with the fact that the market doesn't yet completely understand what he's trying to do or value the collateral appropriately.
(24:30) Um, so there's some perception issues, but he's currently at what 10 and a quarter, 10 and a half um percent on the the stretch product. And I think that ultimately um is kind of establishing a Bitcoin yield curve where he's establishing the cost of money, right? Where where it ultimately should be with kind of within the uh the economic framework of where we might be heading to.
(25:00) So, um, and that plays right into the the Taylor rule with the true inflation being, you know, upwards of 15%. Yeah. And as we're speaking, Bitcoin is running towards 122 and and uh I guess let's get into like this this this two-part series that you've written so far on stable coins, bit bonds, Bitcoin, and sort of this the silent coup that is going on behind the scenes.
(25:24) Yeah. So I and I respect a lot of the work that you and your team do. Um and I've al also give a shout out to Burn the Fed because he also has a similar type of approach. Um I love the storytelling aspect that you guys do and how it hits not only educational but it hits from an emotional standpoint to people.
(25:48) Um so what I look to do is kind of replicate that in the writing that I'm doing. um which you know I set in the the parameters to to keep it kind of stoic, right? But I want to make it almost storytelling but trying to tell um how we got there.
(26:06) So that's why I started with kind of the prelude and then moved into part one and then part two. Um I'll be issuing something over the next two weeks um specifically on Bit Bonds at least for my framework and how I look at it because I think everybody looks at it a little differently. Um, but I I really started to kind of connect the idea. Um, when Andrew Owens talked about it um in DC in December or January this past year, um, I really started kind of diving into what the implications of this new product was.
(26:38) Um, and as I started, yeah, I took the the white paper that they developed with Matt Pines and threw it into AI, started having a bunch of conversations about it, and then I just kind of sat on it for a little bit. Um, we moved into kind of the the May time frame. Um, and I kind of picked it up and started revisiting it again.
(27:04) And then I heard some rumblings about 21 coming out and I was like, "All right, well, if I'm the US government, I'm not going to be able to essentially uh issue big bonds out of the Treasury because we're going to have political issues." Um, so I kind of connected the dots of being, well, you have 21, you have Caner Shield, who's a primary, um, and then you have Soft Bank and Tether. Seems like a a pretty interesting union.
(27:35) And I kind of started diving a little deeper into my thoughts and frameworks around that. And I'm like, this seems like this would be the perfect entity to essentially do like a Bitbond pilot um and kind of bypass um any political issues with Congress. And from that I I kind of put out a short tweet and you know, Dark and Puncher kind of jumped on it.
(27:59) And um basically that's where I started the the framework of exploring more in depth what the significance of bit bonds would be not necessarily through a 21 angle but more from what could it be if the treasury houses it inside at some point ultimately what would that structure look like? um started kind of playing around with the idea of a a sovereign monetary flywheel or sovereign flywheel um throughout the summer and that's when certain um interviews came out like Tucker Carlson with Richard Verer Warner um you know and that added a whole another layer um
(28:35) then we had the stable coin bill come out right and we started getting more insights into what that structure was going to look like you know that they were going to be investable for I think inside 93 tot bills right you start overlaying what the set's looking to do by um basically moving duration to the front end and you still see that we have fiscal dominance you also understand that we have this um buildup that has to happen three to you know2 to3 trillion that's going to have to happen for AI and you see a lot of demand coming to the front end right um so at which point
(29:14) that started adding a whole another layer into formating the kind of sovereign flywheel to which then an idea was populated based off of Richard Warner's work by Dr. Piper Malgram and she basically positioned the uh stablecoin act as a workaround um by the treasury of the Fed. So in her argument, she was stating that effectively by putting um issuing a stable coin that's fully reserved, it moves the individual ahead of the banks kind of in the the latter the waterfall effect in case something goes wrong. Um which I thought was a
(30:03) really interesting con concept. Um, so that's kind that was kind of I waited a while for that all to kind of start taking shape and then I think I had a pretty good basis for which I could really start working on this piece and theory and kind of push into the the sovereign flywheel mechanical aspect because again going back to what I was saying earlier, I'm trying to spend a lot of time thinking about what the transition could be and what those levers would be.
(30:36) Um, and that's once I had the the concept down around stable coins, right, and putting the dollar on digital rails and being able to essentially push it out across the world, you know, from a digital standpoint, kind of drive follow the uh the dollars um brand basically.
(31:02) the fact that it's kind of the the king fiat um versus all other fiats throughout the throughout the geopolitical landscape um and the fact that you can get around capital controls essentially um because now that you have Starlinks or other systems it becomes easier it's it's b you can't they can stop a good portion of it but they can't stop it all right technology will always find a way um you know I I started this whole framework that basically the fact that you have a digital dollar and you have the technology to transport it to every mobile phone in the in the entire world. You're taking it from a macro to a micro
(31:37) from a liquidity standpoint. And there's power in that. And what essentially does that um end up like supporting? Well, kind of supports the idea of a a Euro dollar 2.0 almost, right? Or a petro dollar 2.0, right? Um well what is that skid that basically oils the skids for um a whole digital asset ecosystem right because it's it's it limits once you have the the stable coin in place right basically the friction between stable coins and bitcoin almost becomes um minute so it's it's it's easy to go back
(32:21) and forth um and then I I started kind of putting the framework together is if You look at the administration between the SB and more importantly around the investments around the Trump family that's making in into this ecosystem um and some of the actions with the SEC especially around this ecosystem.
(32:42) I think it's not just campaign promises I think is strategic in nature right so at least that's from the the lens I'm looking at it from. So when you start viewing it as the administration's making inroads into this, you have strategic alignments with companies um around an innovator like Jack Mers, but you have uh basically Caner, right? And Caner itself is highly integrated into this ecosystem.
(33:14) Um you have Tether, right, which is basically the base layer right now, liquidity layer for kind of the digital ecosystem. Um and basically you have Soft Bank which has basically funded our entire technology infrastructure via the carry trade for the last 20 years, right? And they also have their own um systemic kind of uh demographic and debt issues, right? You could start formulating a an idea of all right, how does it all come together and what could that mechanism be? And that's basically where um I threw in the the next idea, right, which was all right,
(33:53) you have the stable coins and you have the which is the liquidity layer and then you have Bitcoin as the neutral reserve asset. Luke Gorman talks a lot about neutral reserve assets and how important they are and ultimately that's what the next monetary system is going to be based off of, right? And you could argue that the east is moving more towards gold, right? And there's a lot of reasons for that, but it look certainly looks like the west is moving more towards a digital sound money um to kind of grease the tracks here, per se. Um,
(34:32) so once we got once I got that concept together, I then kind of looked for how do we because Bitcoin seems to have a lot of positive feedback loops from a monetary perspective. Um, you could also argue it has a lot of ethical feedback loops, but we needed to figure out a way to connect the asset side, the SBR side of the balance sheet to the debt, right? and bit bonds were the perfect transition point basically to help feed that whole system and then you can start a positive feedback loop basically using the stable coins as liquidity right and
(35:11) uh one of the important framings also was the fact that the idea that at some point they're going to frontload the front end and ultimately it looks like they're heading towards yield curve control um and stable coins are an easy outlet for or method for them to do that.
(35:34) Um, you know, we're going to we're a couple months away from, in my opinion, the the the administration's going to uh basically kind of neuter the Fed and um when that happens, this transition will be a hell of a lot easier. Sup freaks, this rep is brought to you by our good friends at Silent. Silent trades everyday Faraday gear that protects your hardware. We're in Bitcoin. We have a lot of hardware that we need to secure. Your wallet emits signals that could leave you vulnerable.
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(37:06) Download now and you'll also get access to the online event featuring James Czech, Bitcoin has crossed the Rubicon. Get the report at unchained.com/tc. That's unchained.comc. I was going to say the um cuz we backed Andrew and Battery Finance uh from 1031 years ago. And I think the thing you're talking about like Bit Bonds and at the the macro level, but at the micro level too, it's one thing that we sort of recognized many years ago when we um first backed Battery is that you you have this ability to manufacture the soft landing that Janet Yell and many others talked about years ago um but via Bitcoin in structured credit. And so in the example of battery, you have Bitcoin
(37:53) sitting in a structure with another asset, typically real estate, and you sort of de-risk that credit structure because you're not as worried about the debasement of the currency um and your your fixed income not being worth much cuz it's going to be um it's going to be compensated for in the value creation that that Bitcoin um uh that Bitcoin recognizes.
(38:20) is over the course and the duration of that loan. So you sort of have the d-risking of this private credit product. And I think what you're describing is the mechanisms of how it will work at at the federal level. Yeah. So what happens? Uh no. Uh the whole the the critical point that I I came up I finally ended at was the fact that by putting the neutral reserve asset that's backed by absolute scarcity on the balance sheet and then harnessing the volatility of that asset to help restructure the debt through bit bonds, right? um through volatility harvesting ultimately
(39:12) causes this self-reinforcing right because it the important part is when I was going through it with AI and the revol's issue sailor's issue right now at least the arguments that were being made was it was he's basically using the ATM ultimately to basically pay the interest on his um preferreds, right? Whether you call that an issue or not, I mean, there's a perception there.
(39:45) Um I think he gave a great answer two weeks ago as to what his solution was for that. But it got me thinking like, well, what happens? The US government doesn't have that issue because the bit bonds are going to be US denominated, right? So ultimately you could essentially print the coupon um for the Bitcoin volat the monetization of the Bitcoin volatility associated with the bit bonds and basically um keep the Bitcoin permanently in the strategic reserve, right? And once you do that and you continue to restructure, now granted over time the market is probably going to require some sort of
(40:28) uh Bitcoin kind of payout, but until that moment happens, you basically can start um this engine that allows you to basically start really ramping up the SC by using the scarcity scarcity of the Bitcoin on the SVR and um basically locking locking the Bitcoin away forever at an infinite duration um because you'd never have to monetize.
(40:59) Now I think um there's going to be other structures that come up similar to what you're talking about. Um I think if the US government would ever single even if they did it through kind of a 21 as a pilot program that this is potentially happening. It signals that Bitcoin's essentially pristine collateral, right? And once that perception happens, you know, there's going to be a rush to basically structure Bitcoin and harvest its volatility in every um conceivable method that Wall Street has just because you're basically rebasing
(41:38) um from the US government's perspective, you're rebasing its fiat liabilities against absolute scarcity, right? while keeping the the scarce asset on your balance sheet, right? Um, in a bubble that works well for the US government, but imagine when Wall Street with the deepest capital market starts doing the same thing.
(42:02) um and structuring it into portfolio products or structuring into corporate debt or structuring it with real estate similar to what you've been talking about or what Grant Cardone's talking about, right? At these increasingly longer durations, it becomes a superpower, right? Like that's when we hit essentially kind of a reflexive equilibrium.
(42:26) Um yeah, that second portion of the S-curve and I think it comes with when the mind set shifts with investors and the general pop, right? Or Wall Street um that this is a you know superior collateral um pristine collateral that the world's ever seen, right? And I was listening to Peter Dunworth talk last night on the What Bitcoin Did podcast and he had a segment in there about bit bonds.
(42:52) Um, and he he kind of opened it up and I like the framing of it. He's like, "The world doesn't have a debt problem. We have a collateral problem." And that that point resonates cuz it makes a lot of sense, right? Going back to the vibrations and the distortions, you know, that it's an inflationary system. It's run by debt.
(43:16) you know, we need to find base layer collateral and and whether that's gold or Bitcoin and ultimately Bitcoin will win because it beats gold on every single one of its characteristics, right? Um it's just a matter of time and in my opinion, Bitcoin's already won. Um it's just how do we leverage it and use it against this absolute scarcity to to make to kind of realign and send us across society. Yeah.
(43:43) To your point about like this reflexive tipping point I think what Sailor's doing, if Bit Bonds ever get out the door, obviously you mentioned 21, like we're at the very beginning stages. And to your point about it's very clear it went from implicit to explicit over the course of this year.
(44:02) Like the Trump administration basically wants to neuter the Fed and bring everything in house to the Treasury. that I think that in and of itself will have will will set a reflexive tipping point because you're like who owns the Fed, the commercial banks, right? And you're sort of cutting them out of the situation and they're going to have a sink or swim moment where they're almost forced to adopt similar strategies again using Bitcoin as pristine collateral.
(44:31) I don't think many people are factoring that in. I I don't think many people are ready for that. But if you look from a regulatory perspective, it's certainly where we're heading, right? Um you look at the comments that JP Morgan put out right yesterday or the day before like the market's waking up to this. It's the wave is coming.
(44:52) Um it's just how fast once it gets here, what's the exponentiality associated with it? And I think um we're going to have ups and downs. I do believe the cycle theory is dead. I think that the market um especially if some of these ideas that we're kind of exploring come to fruition. um it is the endgame for the inflationary monetary system and um it has to be because the the debt based system can operate in a deflationary world that's driven by AI right so um yeah the the important part if you looked at the the monetary flywheel the sovereign flywheel is the structure of a bit bond is
(45:48) you know I I think you posted something about negative yielding debt you know I think that you posted something yesterday about that and what bit bonds do or any type anytime you want to incorporate bitcoin um because all you're doing is you're harvesting the volatility of its annual ker right into a a debt structure and you're attaching it to a fiat debt structure, right? Um, and you're trying to realign the incentives, right? That's all we're doing is in the case of a BIP bond, the US government can borrow 1 or 2%. Right? And it's the investor gets
(46:26) basically the principal protection plus their 1 or 2%. And over the life of the duration, whatever that is, say it's a 10year, you know, and you're at a 35% keer, say it's a 2080 split and um between Bit and Bitcoin and say that the split with the US government's a 50/50, right? You're looking at an incentive of anywhere 15 to 18% tax-free back, right? Um to the investor at the end, right? So now you're starting to get real returns back.
(47:05) So the the government can basically get its 1 or 2% borrowing rate, but the investor can get its, you know, 15 to 18% return. And that's why I think it's important, and Dark Side's discussed this a couple times about how the cost of money significantly higher. You alluded to it earlier, right where it should be from a society standpoint.
(47:25) So I think the way we need to look at this is if you look at Bitbond and Bitcoin as transitionary tools, it's going to help society basically converge to whatever that natural cost of money is over time as Bitcoin's volatility on a a keer perspective decreases as it gets more integrated into society.
(47:53) Right? So, um, ultimately I I think the cost of money should be 10%. Right, or higher. Um, but how do we get there? And how do we ease society into achieving that without ripping itself apart, right? And I think the mechanisms or ideas behind Bit Bonds or the the Bitcoin harvest, you know, volatility harvesting mechanisms is a great way for us to do that. Right.
(48:20) again rebasing pay debt against absolute scarcity. Well, let's let's dive into that a bit more. Like I mean from a social cohesion perspective, you think this is one of the only paths to make sure that we get on the other side of this forth turning this inflection point, whatever you want to call it, with relatively relatively low conflict, kinetic conflict. From my perspective, yeah, I do.
(48:45) um there like as to how it plays out into what variations like how it's introduced into what variations it's uh like it doesn't have to be the way I've outlined it right um various people have various ideas about it and I think it's it's generally directionally correct um you know I received some feedback um from Luke Gorman and right and his feedback was well how do how does this work with the rest of the world right how do how does what stops this process from hyperinflating the dollar against Bitcoin and um you know my my thought back my thought was well it's
(49:30) the speed at which you issue the VIP bonds you don't do it all at once right and then he came back with how does this work basically with um trade issues right between China and you know the rest of the world where we're having deficits and surpluses, right? And we're on the wrong side of the the coin there.
(49:50) And I can't necessarily answer that question. Um, you know, it goes back to some of the thoughts and work that's been done by Dr. Dr. Pip Malgram, which talks about the three pillars and and her pillars. It's basically controlling the money, having technology, and having control of kind of the power to your point that you said earlier.
(50:14) And this is speculation on my part, but I ultimately think that potentially the US government has superior um military advantage. And I think there's probably stuff that we don't realize that they have. Um, in one of my posts this week, I was kind of feeling feisty and I was joking. You were Yeah.
(50:39) Uh, discuss or throwing a toss back to Independence Day. Like, you don't think a toilet seat costs $20,000, do you? Right. And how many audits do we continue to fail? Um, if that's the case, well, we know nuclear war is not an option because of um mutual destruction, right? But we have to work together um from an economic because demographics are bad even with our trading partners whether it's on the front end of the demographic curve or the back end right so everybody's kind of in this really crappy economic situation across the world um and people of course will argue
(51:16) with that but I think there's incentive to work together but even if there wasn't and there was an issue with from a kinetic standpoint I do think that the US has extra cards in his back pocket that basically could help keep the the military or kinetic issues across the world at a minimum.
(51:41) And if if that's the case, I think the give here is basically going back to the bifurcation of kind of the world, you know, east versus west. I think the US is going to pull back um and really focus at home kind of retooling its its supply chains here on the western hemisphere and let the east kind of handle itself, right? Um, so again, that's kind of where I see it, uh, from a geopolitical economic, but as part of that, we're going to have to figure out how to kind of retool our monetary system and Bitcoin and these volatility harvests are the only way that we can realign incentives. Um,
(52:24) and I think that having that military might and economic kind of um uh requirement to kind of work together because of demographics. Um, everybody's going to basically play ball. So, um, and maybe that's just on my part, but at least that's the framework I've been kind of working with lately.
(52:54) No, I I'm I I completely I like to be I don't like the doom. I like to be an optimist and especially when you consider the fact that we have the tools at our fingertips. It just takes the will and the drive to actually pick them up and use them. And if you view it from that perspective, things are actually incredibly optimistic and exciting because um you sort of have this opportunity to to rewire the global economy and that's a that's a massive opportunity.
(53:25) And I think that's when you position Bitcoin, I think it's something I could do better, everybody could do better, is really just painting that incredibly optimistic. Like we have an opportunity as a generation as people living on this planet at this particular point in time to really change the trajectory of where our species goes in the long run. But it's how we realign the incentive structure to help us transition, right? and the the incentives need to gradually um come back to a market rate and it really comes down to this basically structuring Bitcoin into a variety of different products that's going to get us there.
(54:03) Yeah. One being the sovereign debt. Well, that I guess that's the question like does is it dependent on us doing that or is that almost inevitable because more and more people are realizing that Bitcoin is just the natural hurdle rate and I think it's a it's an acceleration mechanism right like we could use it ultimately Bitcoin is going to win and we're going to head up in that system um naturally individuals and governments are going to gravitate towards it and it'll fix it over time, right? Or we could use a system that I kind of outlined in the
(54:40) paper that basically um would help accelerate it, right? Question is what are the the fractures, the vibrations are becoming more violent and more frequent. So how much time do we actually have? I mean, how much time do we actually have before the deflationary forces of AI and its impact on labor, right? Not just um blue collar, which is still down the road with robotics and the embodiment of AI, but more so with um with white collar, what we're currently seeing, or you know, college entrance basically getting decimated and not being able to find work because productivity is increasing kind of at the mid to upper level management
(55:24) levels. So, they don't need to backfill. Um, I think yeah, if we have 20, 30 years, Bitcoin's going to do it. I don't know if we have that much time because of the vibrations and, you know, where AI is going to put us in the next 5 to 10 years would be my counter argument. So, what would what would you tell individuals listening to this like how can they help accelerate? What should or how should they position themselves to prepare for either path? The path where we decide to actually accelerate or we strategically mess up and don't
(56:06) recognize the gravity of the situation and go full boore. The beauty of this the beauty is you know and I I put Bitcoin in two distinct categories, right? It's one for the sovereign individual, bring sovereignty back to the individual. So, just buy Bitcoin. That's all you have to do in either path, right? And then the the second um is potentially my framing, which is it can be used as a tool to kind of transition us into the next system, right? Um so, in either situation, it's it's just going to be as an individual just buy Bitcoin. Right? Now, as to whether I'm hopeful that the
(56:45) US government is to me, this is the ideas that I have is something that Sailor would have done kind of in his um his sleep over a weekend, basically playing with AI, he could have figured all this out. And I'm hopeful that maybe the US government has this type of plan or functionality or thought process in play. And if you read the tea leaves, it certainly looks like it could.
(57:13) not saying it's um it's still highly speculative, but if they don't, you know, they haven't been thinking from this standpoint, it it's either this or some variation of this. Um notwithstanding any considerations you have to take into the global geoeconomic, political, trade um type of thought processes um that could be leveraged at some point to to help again realigners across the board.
(57:44) So, you know, one last thing is I was talking I had a com I had a conference call with uh Jeff Booth just to kind of talk through it at a high level and at the end of it there was another idea I've been kind of playing with a little bit is what if because Jeff's commented multiple times like it's very difficult for humans to look through a paradigm shift and see what it looks like on the other side or be able to understand the changes, right? What if Bitcoin, going back to that whole tool idea, right? Where it's a tool to help us realign incentives to get through a transition.
(58:20) What if going, you know, we talked earlier about Bitcoin having monetary feedback loops and I I alluded to that it also has ethical feedback loops, right? It's a system built on trust and transparency. So, what if ultimately Bitcoin was established not only to give us a base layer for the sovereign individual, but to to also infiltrate governments and the broken incentive truck structures within our our own governments to start bringing trust back to governments and realigning their incentives from serving themselves to serving the people, right? And ultimately, if governments do use
(59:03) Bitcoin um in a method that I I've described, you know, they're going to have a large pile of Bitcoin, right? So what if once we get through this and we go into kind of an age of abundance where basically all marginal costs are driven to zero because of AI and advancements in AI um where we value things differently not from a monetary perspective but the true value comes in trust.
(59:36) What if Bitcoin realigns reorinates society around trust and that is that's its true value and when you get to a world of AI the monetary value is basically there's no need for it anymore right and and Karen that's definitely opium and speculation but I think it's a different framework to to start looking at or explore is basically the endgame might not be the monetary value that Bitcoin holds but the fact that it reinstitutes and injects trust into society, right? So that we can live freely in an age of abundance. Yeah.
(1:00:10) I don't think they're mutually exclusive either, right? Yeah. That's uh I mean, Bitcoin has been described as this trust machine, right? I remember I I haven't described it this way in a while, but uh when I was first getting into Bitcoin, trying to explain it to people like going back to like the original form of accounting where people would have to go to like Time Square and somebody would literally had the ledger and you'd go with your trading partner being like, "Okay, he's giving me apples. Move money from my point in the ledger to his." Like you can view
(1:00:41) Bitcoin as just like this massive beam of light that anybody can just like anchor into and know that it actually like you just have complete faith in it. You can trust it because you know the consensus rules are open source and the incentives of the system are such that it's really hard to to corrupt and just being able to trust that um that monetary system which is the most important tool that we use in money.
(1:01:10) um you naturally have those second third order ripple effects throughout not only the economy but interpersonal relationships and stuff like that. Yep. It's uh it's fascinating and that that's the uh the frustrating thing. So I've been in Bitcoin for over a decade now. It's like how do how do other people not realize this? And to your point about Jeff based comments about most people not being able to recognize that they're going through a paradigm shift, not only not recognize it, but not understanding how to operate while we're going through it.
(1:01:46) Um it's frustrating. Then obviously you have like the culture culture war stuff. It seems like um the spectrum of political volatility is uh as wide as it's ever been. It's hitting from all angles, whether it's um whether it's uh like Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, Russia, the trans stuff here in the country, guns rights, like it just seems like their racial division, they're hitting it from all angles right now.
(1:02:19) Yeah. And I remain hopeful. I I know you interviewed Jordi Visser over the summer, correct? Mhm. Um, I remember I was up at uh I got a date to myself and I went up to Gettysburg and I was just kind of walking around listening and um your framing of how you did Jord spends a lot of time I mean he's a big Bitcoin proponent um but he's also very focused on AI and the transition right so and what that's going to look like and I loved your framing you know and I wrote a a piece that basically at the end it was kind of more of a manuscript for my son and for how I want to kind of raise him. And you guys
(1:03:04) towards the end of your discussion were talking about framing of what it looks like over the next 5 10 20 years bringing us from today kind of into the the age of abundance, right? And that I'll be honest with you that was kind of a a cornerstone for for why I wrote the piece and got me thinking. So I appreciate that.
(1:03:28) Um it was inspirational and it just the world's going to change. There's nothing we can do about it and nobody's prepared for it, right? Um if you go out and ask most people, you know, what type of system we operate in being an inflationary one, right? Nobody can really explain or realize that there's a counterargument that there's also deflationary forces, right? I mean, everybody's heard a little bit about, you know, the price of a TV goes down over time, right? But nobody structurally understands why.
(1:03:59) And that's it shows you the degragation of society. Um where we've we're no longer teaching our kids what's important and how the world actually works. You know, we're so stuck on these dopamine hits that are related to our phones or the next Tik Tok, right? And I have a 16-year-old as well.
(1:04:24) And you know, it's it's definitely been an eye openening experiencing watching her go through her teenage years and see what she values versus what we valued growing up. Yeah. No, I mean it's something I've got Wow. three three under six right now. And it is crazy to think like my oldest, he's in kindergarten. He's aware. He knows what Bitcoin is. he had the Bitcoin wallet and he's starting to ask those those questions like the last year it's been like questions in the car.
(1:04:58) It's like oh wow you're beginning to think about this stuff like how do we approach this and uh we have uh and not only that but like how do we uh how do we make sure that you don't go insane in this in this world as you're you were born he's he was a co baby he was born in early 2020 so like literally born in the the middle what I would deem to be one of the most massive inflection points and points of awakening like CO I think was actually the silver lining of CO was how many people it sort of shook awake in the sense of uh in the sense of like hey something's really wrong here it did the opposite to like it was it was the
(1:05:35) silver lining it woke up a bunch of people but it also um sent uh another portion of the population down the road of doubling down on the insanity and I It certainly woke me up. Um, I mean, my entry came in 2020. So, and it was right in the midst of when gold started breaking down right before Bitcoin started rising.
(1:06:01) I think my my uh orange pill was actually Breedlo's letter to Ray Dalio where he outlined the properties as to why you should invest in Bitcoin based upon Dalia's book principles. So, and that that was the uh the moment I started my journey, right? And it has not stopped. It just continues to get deeper and deeper. And then you add in the secondary layers of what the convergence of AI means.
(1:06:26) And um you we're standing in a very interesting moment in history and um I think this is going to be remembered and talked about for generations to come. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe we'll even be able to talk about it for generations cuz we'll be able to live to 250 um potentially.
(1:06:51) I mean there there's a there's a thought process that our children might not die, right? Like it's it's medical, right? It's uh physiological. You can solve for that potentially. Now, I don't want to get into the ethical issues around that, but there's some potential that our kids could live as long as they want. You know, god forbid an accident. um we might be able to solve for that which would be interest which is an interesting theory to have right um it has a whole bunch of other second order effects and issues with that but um but to your point living to 280 why do you have why is it just 280 right um
(1:07:30) that could be go off of some of the other thought leaders in the space you know we're ultimately converge with with machines. I I don't know if I I want to go that far, but not impossible. No, I don't want to get the chip either. I don't want to become a Borg, a cyborg, but uh I think the community appreciates you just the way you are. I know. I certainly do. Thank you.
(1:07:57) It's uh it is uh I've said it on the podcast recently, too. It's like equally unnerving and exhilarating. Um because I think the unknown is greater than it's ever been. Um, but the opportunity on the flip side of that, the opportunity is greater than it's ever been, too. That's uh that that was like the last thing I was going to say.
(1:08:22) Like I think part of my focus and goal is cuz you do have these competing forces. Um, particularly from the political spectrum of like people that want to go overt like democratic socialists they say. But I saw Ramani was on the VO. He's like, "I'm not a communist. I'm a democratic socialist." It's like, "You're a communist. You're just a step before communism.
(1:08:44) " Um, and so we have there's a very large portion of the of the world that wants to go down that direction and um tried that failed experiment once again. And then you have people like us who are like I I think have appropriately recognized that central authority has corrupted everything and we need to get back to emergent properties and distributed decentralized markets and I think that can fix it and I think that's going to be um speaking of like threading the needle with bit bonds and recognizing Bitcoin as pristine collateral at the the federal level I think socially too that's there's going to be sort of critical
(1:09:24) decision point or turn at some point in the next 5 years where it's like no, we're free market um we're going to the free market direction, not this democratic socialist communist direction. Yeah. No, I agree. And Preston Piss has argued that it needs to be like a bit bonds needs to be kind of a bottom up approach.
(1:09:51) Um, and I disagree. Bitcoin's been a bottom up approach, right? It's grown nothing to 123 um%, you know, in 13 14 years. So I think it's come to the point where in order to tan horse a system that's been hyper financialized that it's going to take strong leadership to realize what the asset class is and it has to be a top- down approach in my perspective and once it is a top- down approach because you might have some different thoughts on that. Um I I believe the asset as it stands is and the network and the
(1:10:34) protocol is completely capable um of taking on immense um value basically being added to it. I don't think it's I think it's capable of doing it now. um if you hold that thesis then Bitcoin Bitcoin's ready for you know the um for prime time and I think uh an administration or a government that realizes um its value prop and understands what the asset is especially backed by you know the absolute undeniable transparency and scarcity um will establish it as pristine collateral And once they do that, it doesn't stop.
(1:11:19) Like it's game over. Yeah. I have no my perspective is is like it's all good. Do it. Don't wait on any other actor to do it. Just do it. So again, that's why we back battery. It's like let's not wait for the government to issue bit bonds. They should, but yeah, let's get something in the private market so that they can pave the way.
(1:11:44) like, hey, this works in a private credit structure. Like, you could apply it to this. You could definitely apply it to a pit bond. And yeah, I think the most important thing is just develop the agency, the will, and the drive to do what you can do with what's at your fingertips and hope that you're successful, number one.
(1:12:09) And then number two, that success sort of inspires others to bring it into what they're doing. Yeah, I I completely agree. And with Battery or with what Grant Cardone's doing, right, I think um there's going to be a lot of a lot of solid examples that um will help provide some guidance to the powers to be to to help them feel more comfortable, you know, in the coming years to to kind of move forward with some of these ideas around Bit Bonds.
(1:12:37) So, yeah. No. And I know I know that they're very solid Bitcoiners, well placed um throughout the administration. I've talked to them and uh to the extent that they have ultimate influence over decisions, I don't think it's they obviously don't have um ultimate say, but I think the seeds are being planted, the right seeds are being planted.
(1:13:03) If you and maybe it's just pie in the pie in the sky, but if you take the the concept I had about 21, one of the original thoughts um and kind of play it out, not only does it could potentially bypass congressional approval and basically establish kind of a pilot program, but it's proof of concept, right? Because if you go out and you do it with 100 billion or 200 billion dollars, which is small in comparison to the US government um debt, then ultimately what happens when Congress on either side of the aisle starts to see that
(1:13:42) hey, we might actually be able to borrow 1 2%. This could actually solve our debt issues, our financing issues. Not only that, this gives us the mechanism to move front end maturities or duration to the long end, right? You know, say the there's a hiccup with because there's a lot of people including infra on I spent a lot of time in spaces in Bitcoin today.
(1:14:11) Um where the it looks like we're heading towards yield curve control. Well, it certainly looks like stable coins could provide the Treasury that mechanism, especially if the Fed has been um minimized in its power and scope, then you know, if you're not doing it with yield curve control, um at some point you're going to need to move duration.
(1:14:38) And this is going to give the perfect cover mechanism to basically move it out further on the yield curve from where it's currently standing. And um but I think it's important that the pilot program itself um be established because if it you need to have the pilot in order to get congressional or political buyin from both sides of the aisle.
(1:15:01) Um again going back to incentive alignment, right? Even this simple concept when it's put out in the in the wild and um it starts to show how it operates, it aligns incentives even across political aisles, right? And you've done a lot of work um and the community's done a lot of work on talking to Congress on both sides to basically state that what this asset is and bring everybody to the to the center to understand it, right? Well, bit bonds are basically a monetary structural proof as well of that, right? That um
(1:15:40) ultimately I think uh again via pilot program with the best one to1 or somebody else um will will give us the um give us the examples and the results that we need. Yeah, I completely agree. It was like it's all happening right now. It's all going according to the plan. We're running towards 124 right now. 123 720.
(1:16:06) And uh it's funny. I think uh this year was interesting. I was actually talking about it this week at the 10:31 retreat that we were on. This year reminds me a lot of like 2015 2016 where people were completely unable to recognize I'm just looking at the chart now.
(1:16:29) We hit a low of 76,000 in April during the tariff tantrum, but you know, we've been hovering in the 100 to 115 range for like 6 months now. And it's like that is if you would have told me that in 2017 that in 2025 where we'd be hanging out, I'd be like, "Oh, good. Bitcoin succeeding." many people uh feels like we're being dragged through the mud and tortured in the same pro time.
(1:17:01) That's that's one thing too like Bitcoin is uh she will humble you because that's that's the way it works. She'll bore you to death and then she'll rip like she is today. And then uh people can't can't stomach that uh that the the boring periods. And it makes sense cuz you once you see it, you understand like oh this should be a 200 300500 trillion market. Uh it's only at 2.5 trillion right now.
(1:17:24) Like why isn't this priced in? And I think just the nature of just human nature like people move at their own pace. It's uh yeah, I put out uh something quick earlier this week just talking about being Bitcoin based, what that represents and it plays on the terms humility, right? Because it forces you, Bitcoin forces you, not only is it a lens to look at the the world and actually call it for what it is, right? and actually say this is real, this is not when you understand um what Bitcoin is and the dis the incentive alignment that Bitcoin the the ethical feedback loops but then when you look at the rest of the world through that lens you can see how distorted the
(1:18:09) broken money system has created it created whether that's politics or Wall Street and kind of their ongoings but that whole process of looking at the world through a Bitcoin lens is a process process in humility, right? It you really have to question everything you've been told your entire life and take a step back and realize that not necessarily a lie.
(1:18:37) It's just how society's been misaligned, right, with a certain belief system. and to see that belief system break down and to swallow your pride first off to explore what this asset is, but then once you start to really dive deep into to seeing how it can change things, um yeah, it's it's a humiliated it's a less than humiliation, but it it also like a phoenix allows you to kind of to rise up and think clearly and um it reestablishes the thought of Jordy talks about it, you know, sense of childish curiosity. Um, but also fosters critical thinking,
(1:19:20) right? Yeah. No, it is. I mean, another phrase is creative destruction. Like creative destruction is like a concept we learn in business school that you're supposed to embrace. And many people uh most people don't start businesses.
(1:19:39) And so I guess you can argue that most people don't recognize that or intuit it. But um no, I think that's the hardest part for most people. Luckily, I was very young and impressionable and somewhat radicalized by the great financial crisis when I found Bitcoin. So I was almost immediately receptive to it. But most people have a very hard time saying admitting that they were duped by the authority figures in their lives in many different contexts and aspects.
(1:20:07) And it's it's everybody likes to think that they are sitting on solid standing on solid ground and um have the ability to perceive the world uh in reality in a way that that um gives them some degree of certainty. And once you find Bitcoin and begin recognizing everywhere throughout the system where things are corrupted and you've been lied to, it's hard to hold your hand up and say, "Yeah, I've I've been duped for decades.
(1:20:39) " To your point, like humility is the most critical um attribute to have when sitting down and looking at Bitcoin. I think we need more of it. Yeah, certainly don't. I think societyy's going to get its dose of it in short order. So, but hopefully it's uh it's an easier pill to swallow than it could be cuz it could and the quicker you get to that point, the uh the better off your life's going to be in the long run.
(1:21:13) So, anybody out there is skeptical and thinking that we're completely insane talking about not only Bitcoin, but the integration of Bitcoin into uh bond issuance. Like maybe just eat a slice of humble pie and uh and recognize and that's the other thing we were talking about this week on this retreat. It's like how many times does Bitcoin have to completely prove you wrong? Uh to for you to reckon like we're at 124,000 almost. It's not dead. Yes.
(1:21:47) Had very volatile periods, but it's been up and to the right consistently for 16 almost 17 years now. It's the best performing asset of the last 17 years. And how long is that going to continue to happen before people wake up and say, "Ah, maybe I was wrong." It's tough to look in the mirror for a lot of people. And that's part of the humiliation pro the humiliation process, right? But a lot of people do not adjust.
(1:22:15) They adjust when they're told. Yeah. So, um, this has been awesome, Marilyn. Thank you for doing this. the notes. Thanks, Marty. Sorry, I kind of ramble sometimes, so I get lost in thought, but um I think you get the the drift of my direction and points when I'm trying to to articulate. Yeah, for all the government officials listening out there, consider it. We need to accelerate.
(1:22:39) I know I know there are many of you out there. There are dozens of you out there that listen to the show. Um so, light a fire under Scopasan's ass and the Trump administration. tell them to focus focus in on this because uh again like I think if you're thinking about manufacturing a soft landing that results in as little social um turbulence as if you want to minimalize social turbulence over the next 5 10 years need to create a way to manufacture a soft landing people access and exposure to um the most pristine collateral, the best asset that's ever existed.
(1:23:24) Yeah. And it's it's important that we stop duct taping and to your point, we actually start providing real solutions for the people, right? And following through. Yeah. So start thinking outside the box. And uh that's one thing we're good as a community um is thinking outside the box.
(1:23:48) creative destruction, a government participating in creative destruction of uh the monetary debt system that they've they've erected. Idea, the only way out. Yeah, this is awesome. Where um where should we send people who are interested to learn more about your your thoughts and um what you're writing about see? I'm I'm pretty active on uh on X.
(1:24:14) So you can you can find me there under Marilyn Hutddle or Maryland uh or Hottle Maryland I think is actually the the surname but and then there in my bio there'll be a link to my subsack. I pretty much put things out um on both platforms. So you just follow me you you'll see the information. All right. We will link both of those in the show notes.
(1:24:39) I hope you have a great weekend. Hopefully um you too, sir. We can do this at some point in the future as things progress. Yeah, absolutely. Look forward to it. Um again, I just want to say thank you for all of your efforts and contributions to the community. Um you've certainly been instrumental kind of in developing my foundation over the last couple years if I as I've really do into the space. So, well, uh we're all in it together.
(1:25:03) Thanks, sir. Uh through a through a common bond. Yes. truth. We're going to win. We're going to win as we like to play. Yes, we will. All right. Peace and love, freaks. Thank you for listening to this episode of TFTC. If you've made it this far, I imagine you got some value out of the episode. If so, please share it far and wide with your friends and family. We're looking to get the word out there.
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