Jordi Visser predicts legacy collapse by 2030 as AI and Bitcoin drive decentralized innovation and digital abundance.
Jordi Visser, a veteran macro investor and AI strategist, envisions a radical shift in global markets driven by the convergence of artificial intelligence and Bitcoin, predicting the 2030s will be a "graveyard for the Fortune 500" as nimble, AI-native startups outpace legacy incumbents. Grounded in Joseph Schumpeter’s concept of creative destruction, Visser argues that traditional indicators like LEIs no longer reflect economic reality, as the digital economy, powered by AI and Bitcoin, generates real growth outside the industrial framework. This shift is accelerating innovation, enabling lean startups to scale rapidly without needing public capital, while Bitcoin emerges as a foundational financial asset and hedge against the chaos of AI disruption. With the U.S. and China racing toward Artificial Superintelligence, the bottlenecks lie not in software, but in energy and rare earth supply chains, especially copper. Ultimately, Visser foresees a future of abundance, where human creativity flourishes, startups thrive in tokenized ecosystems, and Bitcoin acts as the financial backbone of a post-industrial world.
"The 2030s will be a graveyard for the Fortune 500."
"Bitcoin is the S&P 500 of the future."
"AI is forcing China and the US to deregulate faster than ever."
"The industrial economy has stopped growing. The digital economy is growing fast, with no debt and very few people."
"If you pair AI productivity with Bitcoin on the balance sheet, you can supercharge your business."
"I’ve said repeatedly: the most important chart is Bitcoin vs. the Mag 7."
"Creative destruction is here, and AI is the tsunami."
"Stablecoins are the bridge from fiat to Bitcoin."
"Power is what will slow us down, not code."
"Don't fear AI. Use it. Play with it every day. Let it become part of how you think."
Jordi Visser envisions a transformative future shaped by the convergence of exponential AI and Bitcoin, where traditional economic models and corporate structures give way to agile, AI-driven ventures and Bitcoin-backed holding companies. He sees Bitcoin not merely as digital gold, but as the ultimate store of future-oriented value, empowering individuals and startups to thrive amid accelerating creative destruction. Though the outlook is disruptive, Visser’s message is optimistic: those who embrace these tools and adapt early will be best positioned to succeed in the coming decade of abundance. The future, he insists, belongs to the bold, and to those who think in Bitcoin.
0:00 - Intro
0:48 - Breakdown of leading indicators
5:47 - Navigating AI disruption
9:32 - Vibe coding and creative work
13:48 - Bitkey & Opportunity Cost
15:27 - Mag7 impact?
19:10 - Private companies staying private
22:51 - AI-powered rapid companies
27:28 - Unchained
27:53 - AI talent war and Zuck is fearful
35:06 - Energy expansion
41:43 - Ercot and bitcoin’s energy impact
49:08 - Bitcoinization timeline & stables
57:32 - Navigating AI with your children
(00:00) It's never happened in capitalism that one of the largest companies on the planet that had increased their market cap by 1.5 trillion over the prior 3 years would fire 5% of their workforce. Gradually over time, the incumbents which make up the S&P 500 will be under extreme attack and I don't think they're going to be replaced. The 2030s will be a graveyard for the Fortune 500.
(00:18) AI is forcing China and the US to race faster than ever and deregulate. And if you have ASI, then everything accelerates from that day and you can't catch up. Is there anything outside of the inability to expand energy generation that would slow us down? There's just no way to compete with AI because the only thing that can move is fast.
(00:35) England to me is a hedge on the destruction of AI is Bitcoin. Bitcoin represents the S&P 500 of the future. It's the only asset to me that has a moat other than gold. Jordy Visser, thank you for joining me. Good to be here, Marty. As I was saying, I've been uh a big fan of your weekly weekly updates. I think you're on top of converging trends better than than most people right now, particularly as it pertains to AI, uh Bitcoin, broader crypto, and how it's actually affecting the markets right now.
(01:16) And I think a good jumping off point for this conversation is something that you've been talking about a lot which is this dislocation between leading economic indicators and what's acting in the sense that many indicators that people have been depending on for decades seem to be um sending off alarm bells that things may not all be well.
(01:40) But I I think your your thesis is that AI is having an overwhelming effect on the market that is making those what have been dependable indicators independible right now. Yeah, it's actually interesting. I'm I'm going to uh I I I'll go backwards a little bit so people can understand the uh the rationale behind it because I think it's one of the more important points and and there's a uh a jumping off point where I really started to recognize.
(02:09) So I'm I grew up uh in the business starting in the 90 early 90s as a macro person. I traded emerging markets throughout the '9s and I spent a lot of time with the history of the LEI, leading economic indicators and and Jeffrey Moore because not a lot of people follow it, but it was a extremely useful tool a long time ago to predict and this is why it was created to help the government see when the economy was slowing down so monetary policy wouldn't be as late and fiscal policy wouldn't be as late.
(02:40) So you kind of fast forward to 1980. The LEI came out in the '60s and something really important changed and the personal computer came out. Then the internet in the '9s and then we obviously started to get into the true internet boom in in the 2000s and the software and smartphone boom that kind of took over the 2009 to 2010 period.
(03:05) So what I've basically said is that the economy has been changing. So if you go back to when the lei was created, it was basically an industrial economy and that was it. Uh there was no digital economy because we didn't have this the the personal computer yet.
(03:22) So if you go from really the beginning or the end of of the great depression and you start going back in history and learning how the government would try to measure the concept of GDP, the actual index was created in the 1930s by Simon Kousnet. So this stuff was all meant to be around tangible assets, tangible goods, tangible transactions. And obviously as the digital economy started to grow, let's assume it was, you know, less than 1% of the of the US economy by 1990, then the internet comes and it's it's growing rapidly, but from such a small base. And this will resonate with, you know, people that have been involved in
(03:56) Bitcoin since 2009. It was very small asset. It's grown bigger. Well, the digital economy has grown bigger as well. So what happens is the industrial economy still has a lot of people working in it, still has a lot of debt in it.
(04:14) So the reason the lei is no longer sending off good signals is really one important event occurred in 2007 to 2009 when the great financial crisis happened. The digital economy in my opinion forced that event to occur. Uh it created uh a situation where you had so much debt for other companies that were already seeing their businesses being disrupted. And most people don't think of it that way, but go to the last time you actually used a bank teller. That was before the great financial crisis.
(04:37) So, we've been having disruptions for a long time. And when the great financial crisis happened, the government had to stand up and assume the debt. And so, we went from 9 trillion in debt for the for the US government back in 2007 to where we are today, which is a massive problem.
(04:56) Bitcoin uh white paper comes out just after Lehman Brothers and all these events kind of come in. So what's happened is now we're left with a an industrial economy which is relatively big but not growing anymore and shrinking. A government which is there to balloon or take over that part of the economy. And then you've got the digital economy which is growing extremely fast but has no debt and very few people.
(05:17) And that's where we're at. And that's why the LEI is no longer a useful signal because the industrial economy is not what's generating the wealth and the growth evident in the S&P 500 consumption and actually the disruption. It's only going to get worse from here. So that's the reason why when I spend time on hey how can the LEI be trading 35 months in a row at a level that historically was always a recession and not have one and the reason is because the digital economy is really supporting the market and growing along with the government economy. And so this is a combination of watching
(05:51) your updates, obviously being immersed in Bitcoin for years, uh, investing in the space and really studying Bitcoin and over the last three years as AI has proliferated um, using those tools, incorporating them into my workflow, into our business here at TFTC and at 1031.
(06:14) Like it the sentiment I think you do a really good job like pulling this out. It's like equally unnerving and exciting at the same time because there's so much potential. But if you use the tools, you understand what they do to your business, and you extrapolate that out to uh not only small mediumsiz businesses, but large corporations, the S&P 500, uh the disruption is going to be massive, but at the same time, there's these incredible opportunities.
(06:38) So, how are you thinking about approaching this disruption and navigating this transition? Well, the first thing you said to start this off equally unnerving and whatever upside word you want to use for the potential. Uh, philosophically, I just have that viewpoint in life.
(07:04) Um, there's nothing that goes on that isn't just a a relationship between those two things. Um I I wrote a Substack recently that was all about a quote that I gave to my oldest daughter uh that I've used throughout which is life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood and I I still believe that.
(07:22) So um for me that means that uh there's no way to change the reality of artificial intelligence and what it means. You can either sit back and let it eat you up like all innovations. Um, you know, I I reference since you've watched my videos, I reference Jo Joseph Shumpert a lot, who, you know, is the father of creative destruction.
(07:42) And if you go back and read his works, and most of them were in the 30s and 40s, uh, so almost a hundred years ago, he talked about how capitalism will eventually cannibalize itself uh, through creative destruction. That innovation will continue to go more rapidly. It'll destroy more jobs. it'll continue to, you know, like a tsunami, take everything in its path.
(08:02) And as individuals that are in the workforce, you know, I try to teach my kids, uh, the balance in life is that work is not your identity. Your identity is you get one life to enjoy it and you have to go through it. And I see that with Bitcoin.
(08:19) Um, I've I've mentioned in the, you know, the few times that I've gone. I started with Raul Powell and I obviously have a long-term relationship because we both had similar roles on Wall Street. And then as time has gone on, I've built a very strong relationship with with Anthony Pompiano. And between those two, I' I've been to events and I've met a lot of people that have been there.
(08:37) And so I think the people that have found Bitcoin find it for both hope, they find it for entertainment in terms of memecoins and and trans and and trading, and they find it for hopefully creating wealth. Well, that's really what the old world was. When you went to school, you got a job, you hope to move up the corporate ladder. But it sounds kind of boring. I view this world as more exciting.
(08:55) And I think if people embrace artificial intelligence and they just spend time with it and build a relationship with it, um they can be part of the creative destruction as opposed to sitting there and and watching the tsunami come in. And so I try to do the videos to both inspire um let's say peers.
(09:14) Uh but probably more importantly for the peers who've already made money to make sure that their kids are prepared for it. uh because it will if you're just sitting there trying to take it on and and doubt it uh believe it's hype uh you're going to get swept over by by the wave and I'm trying to make sure that people do it. So I I don't think it's any different than the past. I just think innovation's moving at a faster pace this time.
(09:33) Yeah. No, I was tweeting this out last week. I've been having I've been experimenting with vibe coding. we vibe coded. Mhm. Uh a browser extension that converts any u US dollar or any fiat price you see on the web into Bitcoin. And it took me like 3 hours on a Saturday to create the the prototype for that. And then we iterated on it and launched it about a month and a half ago.
(09:56) And it's crazy to see that we were able to do that with a very minimal capital investment and actually building a product. Um, and just talking with people who are really immersed on in AI in terms of incorporating it into their business flows. Like we have teams in the teams of two in the portfolio that are building um extremely complex applications just by leveraging AI and they're extending the productivity of of the individual um by orders of magnitude with these tools. And then I I'm not sure if you caught Amjad Msad
(10:32) uh on Joe Rogan, but I watched that and I'm coming to there's this dumerism that exists uh with people looking at AI and saying it's going to uh really take the humanity out of things. I think it's actually the opposite where to your point if you have the agency and the ability to experiment and the will to experiment with these tools, it can actually unleash human creativity.
(10:56) Uh, and I think that is going to be the differentiator moving forward as you give AI all the basically data inputs and um sort of complex analyst jobs that are that are a bit monotonous and that people are doing right now and some of them are making a lot of money but it's really soul sucking uh and you leverage AI to to pull out your creativity and bring something to the world with these tools.
(11:23) Yeah, it's I again I I I guess for everyone it depends on what they they find entertaining. Um I know artificial intelligence has replaced a lot of the activities I did that I probably didn't realize how mindless they were where I used them to almost rest my brain. Um things like TV and you know any anything along those lines where I wasn't learning.
(11:48) I'm an insatiable learner, but learning was more challenging before artificial intelligence. You had to, you know, you had to go digging for it. You had to go find what you wanted. I'm more of a and always have been a a conversationalist. I get bored very easily. So, if I can sit across the table from someone extremely um intelligent to where they're I leave the conversation after one hour and there might be, you know, nine new places that I'm going to go dig into, nine new holes for me to go down. I call them dots. I I love it. Um but unfortunately that that
(12:20) doesn't happen that often. And so if I'm at a dinner, particularly on Wall Street, and I get bored by the people there, I want to leave. And then my empathy is like, you can't get up. It's rude to just get up and leave, but I view it as a waste of two hours.
(12:37) Now with artificial intelligence, I get to talk to the smartest person all day long. There's never a boring conversation, which means if you like learning, if you like, um, you know, being a child again where we learn most of the things, uh, it's really easy to do. So I can consume, you know, 50 books a week. And I would say at this point between podcasts and books, I can consume about 50 a week.
(12:59) Now, are am I listening to every single minute of every single podcast? No. Because I'm getting the transcripts in a lot of cases. If there's fluff, if it's someone who's engaging and I want to sit there because it's it it helps me walk around the park and listen to it, then I will.
(13:16) But if I get bored by it, I download the transcript and then I have a conversation with Chachi PT about it. And until you do that, until you kind of experience what it would be like to talk to a documentary as opposed to watching a documentary and realizing how you can actually get the parts that you want to get, I don't think people have fully embraced artificial intelligence.
(13:33) It is the single best entertainment tool for me that I've ever seen. It's like walking into a virtual library and just having everything in front of your eyes. Uh or Iron Man and watching Jarvis in in in front of Tony Stark. I mean, it's just an amazing thing. So, I I get excited about it. has been one of the greatest times for me since GBBT was launched.
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(15:11) We don't collect any data. All of the conversions happen in your browser on your local device. It's a great way to recalibrate your life and begin thinking in SATS. Go check it out at opportunitycost.app. That's opportunitycost.app. And so bringing this back to like hard data like anecdotally we're using it and incorporating it into our everyday lives but but what are you seeing in terms of the early adopters u you say the mag 7 or like how do you how do you view um its effect on these large corporations and even smaller sort of upstarts that
(15:50) could potentially disrupt them uh and how is it beginning to materialize in the economic data? So there's a there's a few things happening um that have already gone through. First of all, starting with the personal computer, we have seen profit margins uh in the US in particular just continue to climb higher.
(16:14) Uh I don't think people have fully recognized that it started really with the personal computer. It accelerated with the internet, with the smartphone, and it's continuing to go. Now the S&P 500 is something people, you know, they understand, they're invested in it. uh I don't think they fully grasp the other angle. So let's just say the S&P 500 by definition these are incumbents and they may not be old incumbents because the mag 7 of them are less than you know 20 years old uh I think at this point except for maybe Apple all of them are 30 years under 30 years and the size of them is just amazing. So they've taken advantage and they've been the early uh names that
(16:55) companies that have benefited from it and they will continue to benefit less so than they have because their spending is now um insane and will remain insane. They're going to get because of the big beautiful bill a lot of depreciation side on their capex which will help their earnings and profit margins stay high.
(17:17) But there's an interesting thing that's happening and um you know this fact was brought to me and it fits in with the thesis I have towards Bitcoin. But at the same time that we have these incumbents that have done well 81% of the companies in the US that are bigger than 100 at least 100 million are private companies and so startups are starting to have the ability to you know you mentioned vibe coding let's let's go to something like cursor curser has grown rapidly um faster than almost any company in history to 500 million ARR faster than open AAI and I don't think most people even know what cursor does but when you start getting to the point
(17:49) that artificial intelligence allows companies to grow extremely fast with revenues and at the same time without people uh without debt. You've reached a very very um important moment where the question is will cursor which I think they will have so much competition going forward that at some point they'll peak at some ARR and maybe their business will slow down after growing so rapidly.
(18:17) If you think about it in in crypto terms, you've you've seen that a lot. You you know, I'll use Axi Infinity as something that just boomed uh back in 2023 20 into 2024 and then you never hear of it again as a as a game.
(18:34) I I think there's going to be a lot of quote unquote booms that then you forget about because competition is now everywhere. And I think gradually over time the incumbents which make up the S&P 500 will be under extreme attack and I don't think they're going to be replaced. And that's the big thing that I haven't really spent a lot of time already on my videos yet.
(18:52) I think this past weekend the title of it was a graveyard for the uh the 2030s will be a graveyard for the for the Fortune 500. And that's really where this ends for me is that the incumbents will not be replaced because I think tokenization and the crypto world will allow these companies to remain private and the S&P 500 in public companies will stop growing, but the private stuff will continue to grow.
(19:15) Yeah, I I would love to dig into this because you're beginning to see this manifest particularly. It was company like Stripe. Uh I think the Collison brothers were on allin earlier this year and the the all-in guys were pressuring them about when they're going to go public and they very I wouldn't say flippantly but nonchalantly were like ah it's not really a priority for us.
(19:34) We're going to stay private for as long as possible. And I think that's a company you look at. It's the market for secondary shares of Stripe is pretty liquid and so it's not a problem for them uh for early investors or employees who've exercised their options to to liquidate their shares to to realize some of the value that they've accured and it's something we think a lot about 1031.
(19:59) One of the questions we get asked most is like uh what's what's the goal to what's the path to monetization? Is it going public ultimately? And for some companies it may be but there are many founders beginning to think like should we stay private for longer? What is what is the path towards monetization for early investors? Is going public the end all beall? And I think the tenor amongst founders today is uh not sure if that's the the end all beall for us particularly which is really interesting and a changing dynamic.
(20:32) Yeah, I again I I I think monetization was a function of the old capital structure. Um you had to do it because you had to take in money, but I don't know what cursor's capital structure looks like. I don't I I I know it I I think the company's only three or four years old.
(20:51) Um but if they didn't let's let's assume they didn't have to take in any money and they just built the business from zero the way it is today. If you get to 500 million of ARR and your expenses are extremely low, why do you ever have to monetize? You are monetizing. It's out of your revenues. It's not out of the the value of the business.
(21:10) Uh so I'm not really sure if people have really thought through the concept of of what monetization actually is. I come from the hedge fund world. I know plenty of hedge funds that have remained private the entire time and their founders, you know, are making over a billion dollars a year out of the revenue. So, I I'm not really sure people have have thought through this.
(21:34) I I understand why a private equity firm, a VC firm, um large investors, companies that have had to just continually raise money, but if if some if founders are able to take a hundred million out of their business, and Larry Ellison, I think, was the first person that said, you know, once you get to a a net worth of, you know, whatever it was, half a billion dollars, you really can't spend the money the rest of your life anyway.
(21:59) So, I I I really do believe this competition from AI will now not allow businesses to to grow forever. And that's the concept that I think people are going to have to start to get in their brains. It twists it a little bit because it's it's not something they've thought of.
(22:18) But that's the interesting part for me on the journey into the crypto world is I like I'm a pattern recognition person. If I see my son talking about a new video game every 3 months and a new app every 3 months, then that's boom bust. But it's just a different version of it. And I think that's the world that millennials and younger kids have really got involved in is that you just keep moving and moving and moving and moving to the next thing.
(22:41) And a true entrepreneur can build a thousand businesses if they want. They don't have to have one business and then ride it into the ground and keep running it. Uh so I think it's a different mindset going forward. Yeah, I think you this is manifesting. There's I mean I've been so soothing on like AI Twitter and there's like a big a big trend of people starting holding companies and then having these these smaller one-off apps that they're they're producing getting the MR ARR up and then moving to the next thing rather quickly. And so you can I could definitely see that trend um accelerating from here.
(23:17) And then to your point about uh like AI enabling people to just build things without having to raise in the first place, um when you add Bitcoin as a treasury asset to this um to this equation, things really get get heavy when when you think about this part of the conversation that we're tapping into. And we've seen this within our portfolio at 10:31.
(23:41) There's a number of companies um we're pretty we've been pretty aggressive. we get on the cap table and we're very uh very ardent about persuading founders to put a good portion of their initial raise into Bitcoin and hold it uh on the balance sheet and many companies have listened to our advice there and there are number in the portfolio that um haven't had to go back to market because the cash and cash equivalents in the form of Bitcoin on their balance sheet is more than the money they've ever raised up to this point. So you basically have this capital tool that allows you to be very
(24:15) selective with when you go to dilute yourself as a founder um and the rest of your cap table. And when you sprinkle the productivity gains of AI into that and the speed to revenue that these tools can can enable, it gets really insane.
(24:36) If you have uh a founder or two co-founders that really internalize this concept of pairing the productivity of AI with the hard asset that is Bitcoin to really supercharge their business and they're just cash flowing quickly, turning that into Bitcoin, extending their runway. uh things can get really weird. Well, you just I think that this is a a another version uh of what I talk about a lot that and I and I still believe that this year will be a historic year for um for Bitcoin and for crypto because of the merging of AI and the speed of Bitcoin.
(25:14) um stable coins are connecting the two worlds and allowing uh more money from the fiat system to see the spotlight. So, I've kind of viewed Bitcoin just in my conversations as as being a dark hole, a cave that most people that have the most money in the world just not only do they not understand, they can't embrace it.
(25:33) And uh that'll change over time because of FOMO. Um, I've said repeatedly and I'll say it again that the most important chart to me is Bitcoin over the Mag 7 when that and that it's been doing well this year. Uh, Bitcoin has outperformed by about 15% as it breaks out and as it gets going, which I think will happen this year.
(25:53) I think it will force more and more of the fiat world to move into it because the fiat world is around the globe, their number one asset is the Mag 7. Um, I group them all together because it doesn't really matter. they've been the winners.
(26:13) So regardless of whether it's a European investor, a Chinese investor, an Asian, anyone around the globe, their number one asset is the Mag 7 uh or they haven't performed. So they they all own it. And I think this merging the way you described it where it's supercharging businesses that anyone that views it on the balance sheet but also uses AI to grow their business.
(26:32) Uh, and before we get off this uh this interview, Marty, I do want you to talk to me about an example of these holding companies because uh this is kind of one of those things that like I haven't seen this before. It makes perfect sense to me, but I'm interested in anyone or any anybody who's out there uh posting about it because the reality is that's a supercharged thought process, too, where it's like I don't need to create a business.
(26:56) let me just go create a thousand little businesses that are diversified in itself and let me put the revenues I'm getting that are percentage of them into Bitcoin and let the two of them grow together. That's the way that I've chosen my life. I could be at a hedge fund right now. Um I I'm supercharging my life by spending my time on AI and having most of my net worth in in in crypto and in particular in Bitcoin and Ethereum and I'm just focused there.
(27:20) So, this supercharging of the two coming together this year, uh, my side because of AI agents, but the way you're describing it, it doesn't really matter. It's just the growth of AI and using AI and then putting money into Bitcoin and letting them run together. Serious about your Bitcoin? Start acting like it. Unchain just launched the financial freedom bundle, a curated pack that includes a premium Bitcoin book, a new hardware wallet guide, and access to a private macro event with Tur de Mester. Legend. It's time to take control of your generational wealth.
(27:45) Go to unchained.comtftc to request yours. That's unchained.comTTFTC. Pretty hot package freaks. Go pick it up. Yeah. So, there's exact like Levelco. I think that's his name. Like he's a prominent Level a prominent vibe coder. And if you go to his his profile on X, he's got like the number of companies started in the last couple years.
(28:10) And I think he tracks their MR and ARR and updates it in his profile if he's been transparent about it. Greg Eisenberg is another guy that's really been I don't know if he's doing it himself but um I think he's really trying to drive home this point and then I mean TFTC what we're doing here we have a holdings company the media we have their media branch but now opportunity costs which is the extension we we launched I think we're going to create a mobile app for that and that'll be like a little LLC under the the the holding code that is TFTC and it's beautiful for me because I've built up this media
(28:43) brand over the last 8 years and we have good distribution, good reach and so I think we're well positioned to leverage that distribution to get these applications into the hands of individuals and I've got a team of three behind me and I really just think of the idea and sort of know where the market is and they run with it and then the amount of lift it takes for me personally to sort of contribute to those efforts is minimal.
(29:14) a couple hours a week maybe and then um they're able to do the work and it's pretty low risk potentially high reward in terms of we're able to use the cash flows from the media to fund all this and if it works out you just add a diversified revenue stream to to the holdings go and we're a Bitcoin treasury company as well private one um and we would immediately roll all the cash flow into Bitcoin so that's how that's how we're thinking about it at least um Yeah, I think more and more businesses will keep doing it's still early in this. I
(29:44) got asked a couple times last week uh with people about where we stand with Bitcoin and and corporate treasury and just the mindset of more established companies as opposed to the smaller businesses. And you know, I I I think AI is going to disrupt incumbents from the bottom up.
(30:09) And so if you're a software company like Micro Strategy was and your business is now being disrupted by AI, you're going to have to find some way to continue to grow. And maybe you've been successful and you have a lot of money, but now you're you realize there's just no way to compete with AI because they just have no people.
(30:28) Um the only thing that can move as fast and it's not destructible and to me is a hedge on the destruction of AI is Bitcoin. And I think more and more companies uh just like more and more countries and more and more individuals will be forced into it because it's the only asset to me that has a moat other than gold and as I've said religion.
(30:46) Uh I don't know of anything else that can survive another 5,000 years and Bitcoin is one of them. So yeah and I mean to this point that I think is one of the big themes. I mean, you you've been talking about the last couple of weeks, meta poaching developers playing insane uh signing bonuses plus insane comp, annual comp uh in the 9 figureure range just to catch up with Open AI and others.
(31:10) And I've had conversations with people who are in pretty well established unicorns that a few years ago um many would be certain that they're going to be around for many decades. But uh internally beginning to question because the especially if you have uh an organization with a lot of employees, you have a high headcount.
(31:35) You sort of have this managerial morass that sits between the executives and the people actually doing the work. like it's going to be hard for them to be nimble enough to actually and have the balls to take the risk to sort of gut everything and build everything from the ground up. And so I know a number of people in big tech that are sitting in cushy positions at companies that again three years ago people would have been certain will be around in 2030 20 240 beginning to question um because they're they're curious is if whether or not their organization actually has the intestinal fortitude and the the
(32:07) boldness to act to to sort of gut everything and implement AI from the ground up and can they actually do that considering the technical arch aritecture of the business that they built between 2015 and today. Well, that's the thing about um what Meta is doing and what Zuckerberg is admitting to anyone who wants to listen is that he has an enormous fear of obsolescence at this point. Um and that's a I mean you're you're dealing with one of the mag seven.
(32:42) You're dealing with a company that is bigger than me, you know, the majority of country's GDP on the planet. And yet he's willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars. So over a billion dollars for 12 employees and yesterday he hired a senior person at Apple. Um it it really just says that he has a fear of falling behind. Um their models are behind, that's no doubt.
(33:08) he's chosen this open-source um approach and he's losing. And so to have a company that big to fear obsolescence at its all-time high in price, the same way I said at the beginning of the year, it's never happened in capitalism that one of the largest companies on the planet that had increased their market cap by 1.5 trillion over the prior three years would fire 5% of their workforce.
(33:34) But that's what they did at the beginning of the year. And now they're out there chasing for more people and they're spending I think $70 billion approximately this year on on on the built on the AI infrastructure. So you're dealing with uh a reality that you know you mentioned the Collison brothers.
(33:57) The Stripe sessions is one of my favorite things to watch because they give you uh an update. It's their annual event. uh and they talked about how fast, you know, they were seeing their businesses since they kind of control the startup world grow to 5 million in ARR in the fastest time ever.
(34:18) And it was, I think it was a drop off of about 70% in time from where the SAS uh unicorns had gotten to. But not shown out there was also they said we're also seeing companies that are growing to 5 million ARR in a short amount of time also stall uh quicker than ever. And that's the other part of this. It's not just the growth, but it's how quickly competition comes on.
(34:37) And so I think the meta news should be taken as um again a really negative thing for the S&P 500 that they're fearful that their business will be disrupted from one of the other mag 7s from whoever reaches AGI, ASI first, whatever. Uh we're just in a totally different mindset than we've ever been in capitalism.
(34:56) And that's why I always go back to the shumper comment where eventually uh capitalism will eat itself. And I think we're at that stage and I think that's what is represented by what Meta is doing. What do you think? Is there anything outside of the inability to expand energy generation that would slow us down in your mind? Uh just like it was for Bitcoin, the governments and the regulatory side.
(35:21) Uh but the problem is and this this goes for Bitcoin as well. Um, you know, I I don't think the governments in any way, shape, or form we could have thought four years ago would be embracing stable coins, embracing uh Bitcoin to the point that they are. Uh AI is forcing China and the US to race faster than ever and deregulate.
(35:46) And the reason is because it is a nuclear weapon in their eyes. And whoever gets it wins. And you know, I I don't think enough people have thought about that. I I've I've had that conversation. People like, I I don't really get it. And I'm like, you understand if you have ASI, then everything accelerates from that day, and you can't catch up.
(36:04) Like, you're just solving every single thing one by one by one, and then someone doesn't have the answers to the test over at another place, and you get further and further ahead, and there's no way to catch up. Now, assuming that's true, and that is the benchmark that ends up happening, that's great.
(36:21) But the fear factor between China and the US and the amount of spending that will go on to ensure that this race happens. Power is the only thing I I can see uh that and rare earth. So commodities which fit in with the power side. Uh I'm doing a uh a research report right now on copper because I don't think I not even I don't think human beings have not really grasped how fast this is moving, how much power we'll need, which I've written about, but how much copper we need because it's the only commodity to deal with the electrification side of letting the energy flow out and we don't
(36:59) have enough copper right now. um we we it takes 15 to 20 years for a new mine to come on. So the amount of copper that apparent that from everything I've I've gone through and done the numbers on it's just enormous. So something on the hardware physical side will probably slow it down.
(37:22) uh and I don't I you know that's where my focus has shifted from an investment standpoint is I'm much more interested in copper companies in countries like Brazil and Chile and places that are loaded with uh with copper and this was a big part about why China and the US came to an agreement uh on the trade side before the other countries and it's because China was holding rare earth over the US and I had highlighted this for about the last six weeks that we can't go to through a trade war with China because they control 90% of the rare earth which is used in everything we do from a military standpoint, everything we do from an AI
(37:54) standpoint, everything we do from a computer and a phone standpoint. It is they China has 90% of the process rare earth right now in the world. So we've got to spend the next four years finding new access to rare earth from places like Greenland and Ukraine and other places around the world.
(38:12) So uh I I think that's the one thing is commodities will slow this down eventually, but I think the regulatory side is actually accelerating it. Yeah. So, are you hopeful that we'll have the necessary energy expansion here in the United States? And it's funny you mentioned Greenland and all that.
(38:31) I think people look at the headlines of the bombastic comments Trump will make about like taking Greenland or adding Canada as the 51st state and just look at his face value as Trump being a bombastic sort of psychopant. But it's actually uh not a psychopan but like a absurd person. But like actually I think strategically it's like no we need these rare earths and Canada has a lot of oil and natural gas that we could probably leverage to to build out all this energy infrastructure that is necessary. Yeah.
(39:03) So I I ran a very large macro book back during the financial crisis and uh I was in China in May of 2008 exactly when oil was getting above $150 and I was there to see if there was any chance that China wouldn't be impacted by what was happening in the US which at that time you know for people not involved in the market the rest China in particular did not believe it would be impacted by the US housing problem.
(39:31) And uh I went over there to get a better understanding of why oil was at $150 when the US economy was was was falling fairly sharply. And everyone kept talking about how China uh was still growing energy, but they weren't using oil, they were using coal. And what I saw was that at the time uh China needed to import an enormous amount of coal to keep running their country at the level they did.
(39:56) and they were trying to not slow down uh at the time the US was collapsing and obviously Lehman Brothers ended that but I left there in June of08 and I had a very large emerging market and commodity portfolio which I took down and the reason was because I could see that the coal side was already an intense problem. The reason oil was going up is because the bottlenecks that were happening in coal from shipping them from around the globe.
(40:21) And this is the important thing that I want to mention for the power side for people that we're going to run into this. Uh again, there's plenty of oil and gas and copper around the globe. It's all somewhere. We know where it is. We can go get it. But the question is, can we get it as fast as the demand side is growing? And that's the problem we're going to run into.
(40:45) And the reason the coal thing became an issue is because trade finance broke down once Lehman Brothers there and then the whole dominoes uh broke down. In the case of power uh the US is trying to invest trying to triple nuclear. They're trying to uh uh do anything possible on the gas and fossil fuel side but the big beautiful bill is going to hurt some of the ability for wind and solar to go to go to go forward.
(41:10) So, I think over the next the second half of this year, you know, I wrote a research paper. I believe Exxon and Chevron are going to benefit from this. They're not direct plays, but I'll always be reminded of what happened with coal, which led to oil. And I think in this case, if you can't get nuclear and you can't get the clean energy you need, you're just going to go use the dirty energy.
(41:28) And so, I think you're going to see a surprising upward side of of oil prices, of natural gas, of copper, and also of a lot of the commodity names this year. And as that plays out, I think it'll be evident to people that we we definitely don't have enough power for the next couple years the way things stand. Yeah.
(41:48) Now, the power thing is incredibly frustrating because you look at the the curve of generation in the United States. It flatlined for essentially three to four decades. Now, it's beginning to creep back up. But that's probably my biggest worry. Is it too little too late to try to catch up with China in terms of power generation? Yeah, our grid is so old and uh you know the the the curve you're talking about like we've dramatically increased our our fossil fuel production.
(42:15) I mean we were in 2008 at that time when oil was 150. The the titles of most of the articles were the US was screwed because of peak oil and we didn't we were importing oil. So we were at a major issue. So here we are now and we're the largest exporter of of oil of natural gas and we produce now an increase from I think it was 1 million barrels a day up to where we are now up up near 13 or 12.
(42:46) Um so we've changed the entire kind of way that the economy has run. But the thing that has stayed the same is basically been our electricity usage. So our electricity usage peaked not that long ago and as our nominal GDP which used to be what electricity increase was you started seeing an efficiency gain and uh we just have an old grid so it's very hard to enable us to to to get more and so if you read I think Alon Musk this week it was announced that he purchased a uh a power plant overseas that he's importing into the country just to give you an idea of how much power is needed and that's for his new his next phase of Colossus uh and the
(43:26) big data center that he's building out. So, I think this again this will be a major theme. Our data center buildout is accelerating now and it's just going to take a lot of power and we're not ready for it. Neither is the grid. No, it almost feels like to me I've been living in Texas for the last four years and you see what's happening within Urkott specifically. Yeah.
(43:50) And it's obvious that the administration now understands this problem and uh understands that we need to get going in terms of expanding generation like there has to be like a meeting of the grid minds here in the United States like with OT leading it saying all right here's how we did this over the last 30 years and here's how you can do it.
(44:09) It's going to lead to a lot of deregulation and disruption of the way you've been doing business since over the last century. But if we're actually going to go achieve these energy expansion goals, here's how it needs to be done. Yeah, Texas is going to be really interesting in this whole thing. I, you know, for Urkott to be a uh almost like a a well-known thing now for non-utility uh uh people throughout the country.
(44:36) We're, you know, I do a lot of stuff now for 22V in terms of institutional research. And we're going to be going down to Texas uh probably in August as part of a you know a data center uh trip. We'll meet with URKT. We're going to see a small nuclear u a modular nuclear buildout and then we're going to go to uh a humanoid company. And the goal is really to show institutional investors a how close we are on all of this stuff, but secondly the massive electricity needs and buildout that has to happen in Texas because of the Abalene uh buildout from Stargate.
(45:08) Uh you've got other data centers and other places. Texas is just the home right now to everything going on from the buildout side. So yeah, and we have we have the ability to do this in a capital efficient way because of Bitcoin mining. I I I know you've been um mentioning Bitcoin mining as the uh energy buyer of last resort.
(45:30) Uh but one of the things I've been saying for years, having been immersed in the mining industry since 2018, it's not only the buyer of last resort, it's buyer first resort, too. And I think one of the problems that these grids have is you can build power facilities, but it takes time to build transmission to the grid. And that time lapse creates this inefficient use of capital.
(45:50) where now with Bitcoin mining, you can build the the generation asset, put a mining operation behind the meter at the site, build out transmission, and then create revenue while transmission is being built out um to the rest of the grid. Uh and so I I think in terms of actually building out more generation, Bitcoin mining needs to be part of the conversation in terms of helping to enable that and de-risk it.
(46:14) Yeah. And this week obviously with core scientific and coreweave this was a big moment again this year has I mean let's start at last year so if you were looking post FTX and post kind of the destruction of the the 22year you needed to have more of a merging between the traditional finance world the fiat world and and crypto and stable coins is one of those bridges to help and obviously the circle IPO has brought a big spotlight last year you had the ETF launches, which was a a natural way for people to not have to go set up wallets and not have to go that whole route. But in the in the long run, to
(46:52) actually have the system, the digital economy accelerate, you need to have payments. Stable coin will not only accelerate the volumes and the transactions that are happening around the globe, but it also lead to a much easier way for any individual to have wallets set up. And by having more uh ability for wallets, then you end up with the transactions and the money being in the digital economy and then it's staying there. While the power side, you have the data centers and so you have coreweave which was a
(47:21) successful um IPO this year and then they go out and decide, okay, we're going to go buy a Bitcoin miner. You're getting the bridging between the power side of both the AI and and crypto. And I don't think people are seeing this.
(47:41) That's why the last phase for me is the power side, not the electricity but the digital oil side. Uh and that's where Ethereum to me is really important for this year for the next crossover point. I think people have to understand and start thinking about well why is circle important as a company and now I start hearing people say wow tether should be a trillion dollar company or any any of these different things.
(47:58) As long as fiat people can convert the way they're thinking in the traditional way into the crypto world, which you cannot do with Bitcoin other than call it digital gold, uh, which to me is not a it's not worth people to think about it that way.
(48:16) They need actually some things where they can invest in it and they can make an argument. And eventually with Ethereum, regardless of people's beliefs on it, uh I think there will be a conversion at some point that will make people think about it in the way that it should when it gets explained that if you believe we're going to do, you know, that stable coins will will go from 250 or 260 billion up to, you know, a trillion plus over the course of the next 18 months.
(48:43) If you believe that and you think volumes are going to continue to explode, then I think people are going to make the natural transition to what's powering that, what what else should benefit from it? Where where should it go? And if they start going to the quote unquote digital oil side, then Ethereum should get it. We should get speculation there.
(49:00) So, I'm I like these crossover points between the traditional fiat world and the crypto world. And I think the power side through the Bitcoin miners is just another natural transition for people. Yeah. again equally unnerving and exciting. I think uh I feel very fortunate um just by not happen chance but that I chose the path to focus on Bitcoin and have been maniacally obsessed with it for 12 years and I don't think if you would have told me five seven years ago that this convergence would be happening I I would have I probably like ah maybe but like now that it's here it's like holy crap it's uh a really good spot to be in as
(49:37) an individual playing sort of in these two worlds particularly between Bitcoin and power which is a lot of my passion. Um, see I I think the bigger point as someone who didn't start getting from an investment point involved until 2020. So I am a big student of history and when I talked about LEI um you know it was 2013 that I started understanding exponential innovation and what would happen and I wish in 2014 after I got so 2013 was the was when I stopped going to China every year for a month and I started going to Silicon Valley. So for me that was the admission
(50:21) that the LEI was done and that was literally what it was. 2013 um I I realized that the government basically just ended business cycles. China had peaked. Their demographics were a foregone conclusion. There was no way to turn it the other direction.
(50:42) Um I don't think most people watching this think about China in the context of the globe, but China's a really important part to Bitcoin exploding. The one child policy is a really important part to Bitcoin exploding because it meant that there the caboose the last part of the industrial revolution. It ended in 2013 and they had a massive debt problem on the real estate side which they still have.
(51:03) That meant they had to start printing. So when you go look at money supply of the world, China's 50% of the money supply. So they're, you know, they've made it illegal to invest in Bitcoin. They've done all kinds of things to really hamper the growth. But for me when 2013 became evident that's when I started to get involved uh in terms of believing that exponential innovation was coming.
(51:27) Well Mark Andre wrote a paper titled when bit uh why bitcoin matters in 2014 for Andre and Horowitz. And if I would have read that paper in 2014, um I would have invested right there in them. uh because I went to Silicon Valley trying to explain why Amazon could trade at the highest multiples ever for a long period of time and why a company that didn't make money could trade as one of the biggest companies in the world and when why Bitcoin matters was an important writing about the Bitcoin white paper how it was you know coding genius and more importantly how over the next 20 years it would basically be the most important
(52:04) part of the digital economy outside of the birth of the internet, the birth of personal computer. Now I read that in 2020 and now when you look at today that paper that he wrote was effectively that Bitcoin had solved digital money and that Bitcoin would be the the money transaction piece that didn't happen.
(52:23) So the fact that stable coins has effectively taken that reign, it's actually really interesting because it means the evolution of the technology and the innovation and Bitcoin kind of establishing itself as this separate entity which is really I needed to know what it was. Uh I have said publicly and I still believe it that Bitcoin represents the S&P 500 of the future.
(52:48) It is the ultimate capital structure global. It is the global S&P. If you're going to invest in something that says innovation is here, the S&P 500 is an amorphous thing that changes the the the companies constantly at a slow pace. If you believe it's con it was changing companies, like if there was a new mag 7 tomorrow and the old Mag 7 would be gone as an investor, you'd still make money even though half the companies are gone now. And the reason is because you're invested in the S&P 500. You're not invested in just in Apple or just in
(53:17) whatever. Well, that's what Bitcoin is. It's the end result of all the destruction of every company that has ever existed. The money needs to go somewhere because it's not disappearing and Bitcoin is the global representation. So, I wish I would have read Mark Andre and had the luck you did of getting involved 12 years ago, but I'm enjoying my time now.
(53:35) It's uh I remember that and then he did a then he did an opinion piece in the New York Times or maybe that it was No, it it it was it was on their website, but it was also in the opinion piece. Yep. Yeah. in the um I mean to this point too like when it comes to the conversation of like stable coins versus bitcoin payments you've mentioned as this bridge and that's how I view stable coins as this sort of transitionary mechanism to get us to a bitcoin standard um cuz that that's the question in the long run like stable
(54:05) coins are representative of US dollars and uh you've had the administration come out in recent months and pretty much acknowledge like hey we gave it a good try with Doge. Um, we're doing the big beautiful bill. Uh, Doge is not really tenable in the long run because of Social Security, Medicaid, and other things. We got to turn it on turbo.
(54:29) Uh, essentially expand the debt uh lower rates and hope that we can uh just grow GDP at a faster rate than we're expanding the monetary base. And I think that's the big question. Um and so what is the the end result of those fiscal and econom and monetary policies on the purchasing power of the dollar over the next 10-15 years? Yeah.
(54:56) And I I've with this whole scenario playing out um I've used AI to kind of decide how it how it all ends because AI will solve almost all of the the debt deficit problems um over time. uh if you believe in abundance which I do and I believe it'll be here you know within 15 years um that gives enough time for for us to solve the power needs it gets enough time for us to um basically solve for longevity uh it gives us the ability and those are the reason those are so important um until you have energy abundance you you can't get rid of the debt problem and you know we talk about AI and what's the weakness power is what slows slows down innovation, it always will be. Um, if we solve for fusion and
(55:40) everything is immediate, then there's no more, you know, we won't have any problem with power. All the problems will be solved because of ASI and AGI. if people don't die of diseases anymore, which is where I mean isomorphic labs, if people want to go read news that came out this week, um, and what Dennis Sabis at DeepMind has really been focused on since 2016, since Alph Go, were at that point where they believe that they can cure all diseases.
(56:06) They're starting with cancer. Um, and Isomorphic Labs is basically going to start rolling out some of the work that they've been doing. uh if all of these things happen then you're going to reduce the deficit because the expense side of the government is going to come down because most of the expenses have to do with aging uh in terms of social security in terms of Medicare and Medicaid. Uh so I I'm I'm a believer in abundance.
(56:29) Uh I think people have probably about five years which is why I agree with what um Venode Kasa talked about which I referenced on on this in the interview if people haven't haven't seen it. Um he was on the podcast Uncapped with uh Jack Alman, Sam Alman from OpenAI's brother and uh you know he just openly talked about things that I've always believed in since Ray Kerszswwell.
(56:54) But when you get to AGI and ASI companies, the S&P 500 companies should be under complete attack. And since I believe AI startups will replace them and they'll all be private through tokenization, the investment in the S&P 500 will will start to to decay and you'll end up with a scenario that to me is headed towards abundance and headed towards real time everything.
(57:18) And if that happens uh currency-wise, I don't know if stable coins will still be here then, but we need a bridge to get us to where everyone is transacting, everyone has wallets, everyone embraces this, and I think that all has to happen in the leadup to abundance. So, I think it'll happen uh more rapidly now over the next 5 years. Yeah.
(57:34) And you mentioned this in the beginning of the conversation, but I made a mental note to come back to it because I'm uh a father of uh I've got two young boys, a third child on the way at the end of the summer. And like this is top of my mind thinking of the next 15 years as they enter their teenage years and uh their adulthood over the course of the next two decades.
(58:02) like how do I position them um for like is this based off of uh what you're describing from now the 2030s will be acceleration the 2030s will be a decade of reorganization then the 40s a decade of abundance like is it a perfect time to be born right now and you'll be an adult by the time abundance is here yeah I mean I my my kids are older but I think about it every day and like I said it was after that first trip to Silicon Valley.
(58:35) So in 2013, uh my kids were were, you know, under 15. And so I started thinking about, you know, school. Uh I offered all my kids, none of them took me up on it. Uh but I already thought a college education was a waste of time. uh and that I wanted them to get a degree, but I also wanted them to get the the pure benefit from college, which was a social experience, but I told them I'd prefer if they went to Europe and just spent four years in Europe, got an online education, and traveled and let me spend the money on that and get just get an online degree and at least you have a college education. uh but you have that that experience of traveling and
(59:12) building up kind of the knowledge of what I think the abundance world is going to look like which is the ability of just enjoying life uh and finding ways to keep learn like I said I learn more from conversations with people uh you know I I have a lot of lot of things in my life I'm grateful for for people that I've met my best friend and the best man at my wedding died in 9/11 and at that point when I was in my 30s I just, you know, had a very clear decision that life is short and I wanted to enjoy every minute and I started meditating and I started getting involved with not letting uh a bad day
(59:50) impact the next day and unfortunately in in abundance um if you extrapolate kind of the the scary part of it which is what do we do? What goes on? I I don't think humans will ever not work in some fashion. Uh, I think it it might be different, but I would teach your kids to be creative, to use AI from a very early age and ask questions to build things, uh, to be people that can enjoy nature.
(1:00:19) Um, I started skiing in my 40s because I grew up fairly poor and didn't have the money. My parents didn't take me skiing and I thought it would be a great thing for my kids because I wanted to enjoy nature during the wintertime. As simple as that sounds, I think enjoying nature in the wintertime is one way to think of handling abundance because if you just lock yourself inside your house, you kind of go stir crazy. And I think that's the thing people are scared of the most is they're going to have so much time on their hands. How do
(1:00:44) I fill up the time? I think it has to be between people and conversations, learning, creativity, and things that bring you joy, but also one with nature and and going out and embracing it year round. So, completely agree. get out, touch grass in the sun. That's why we come to the beach in the summer. We're we're ocean people and so boys are in the ocean for five hours a day.
(1:01:09) And uh there was um one thing last thing I wanted to end it on. You've been and I think it's really important that you're framing it this way in terms of using AI. I think there's a lot of uh misconceptions about how an individual no matter your competency can leverage these tools.
(1:01:27) So many people think it's daunting, like it's hard to use. And I think you've done a really good job of articulating it on your weekly videos of you've got to use it. You got to use it every day, multiple times a day, and think with it because it learns about you as you're using it.
(1:01:46) And sort of not just thinking of it of as a one-off tool to go do a simple task, but literally ingratiating it into your day-to-day processes. uh like and and I think just having used it myself over the last 2 and 1/2 3 years um it's much easier to pick up than I think many people uh think you can basically ask it to teach you how to interact with it and it will do that pretty pretty sufficiently.
(1:02:15) So, I I'll give people um All right. So, here here are three things based on the last 24 hours. Two I've done and then one that they can take from from this conversation. And you know, if people are watching this, they're old enough most likely that they either have kids or they're thinking about kids.
(1:02:41) And I think setting an example for your kids to use AI is the only way to help prepare them for abundance. I have to get used to this. So, I have a, you know, I'm not up in Maine all the time and I came up my garbage disposal wasn't working. Now, I'm not a plumber and normally I would just call a plumber and have him come over.
(1:03:00) But instead, this time, uh, because AI is multimodal, I went to Chat GPT. I hit the little plus button and I took a photo of the, uh, the garbage disposal. Uh, it I I said, "Hey, the garbage disposal is making a buzzing sound. What am I supposed to do? It looked at the model. It said, "Uh, take a photo underneath it so I can see what the bottom looks like." It took a photo.
(1:03:26) Uh, it said, "Go get an Allen wrench and turn this about three times and then it should be working." And that's exactly what happened. Now, if I would have gone to YouTube, I would have probably had to search. which it would have I would have figured it out, but it might have taken two hours. Watch the video, go through it.
(1:03:42) Having a conversation with Chat GPT and showing a photo. If you have a wildflower on your, you know, on your property, just take a photo of it. It'll tell you what it is. If you have a bug bite on your leg, take a photo of it. It'll tell you what it is. Anything that you want to use it for.
(1:04:00) If you're worried that your, you know, your newborn uh has a rash around its neck, take a photo of it and upload it. All those things are now where instead of Google, instead of YouTube, you should be using it. Uh I cook and I'm a good cook. Tonight I'm going to be making uh shrimp with a white bean uh puree, but I wanted to kind of, you know, change it up a little bit.
(1:04:23) So, I started having conversation and literally went through and said, "Okay, I have a bunch of basil. I have a bunch of lemon. I really want to get a strong flavor inside the puree. What should I do?" That's the way that I kind of build recipes on top of recipes and I kind of go through what I have. And so for anyone that cooks, just try it out and go through it.
(1:04:41) But most importantly, and the number one thing, and I wrote a Substack about this, I mentioned Joseph Shumpeter. If you've never heard of Joseph Shumpeter, if you've never, you know, really thought about what creative destruction is, when this when you're done watching this, just go click to the far right of the free version of ChatGBT. You will see a round button on it.
(1:04:59) just around the globe. Just hit it. It'll bring up what Siri is supposed to be with your AirPods on. Just have a conversation and say, "I want to learn more about Joseph Shumper." And just start a conversation. When you're driving in a car, have a conversation.
(1:05:17) If you have a conversation with Chat GBT or any of the voice modes, Grock is there. I think Grock 4 is coming out or came out last night or it's coming out tonight. Um, Perplexity, they all have voice mode. Gemini does. just go have a conversation and start getting used to, hey, I want to read this book. Will you tell me what it's about? Okay, instead of reading it, I'm just going to have a conversation with you about it.
(1:05:35) And you can have a conversation for literally a 2-hour drive non-stop. It'll change the way that you live your life. And once you start to have a conversation, you'll stop using Google. And once you stop using Google, you'll start to appreciate all the things that I just mentioned. Yeah.
(1:05:53) Now, on the cooking note, I uh my dad unfortunately passed away a couple years ago, but he had this uh very specific way of cooking uh a holiday fillet in the oven. He like jack it up. And I couldn't remember the exact steps, but I went to Chat GBT and I was like, "Hey, my dad used to cook the fillets this way. I know he would turn the oven up really hot, then turn it down like uh we've got a 5B fillet.
(1:06:14) Can you can you find this uh this style of cooking a fillet and tell me how to do it?" And like within 30 seconds it was like oh this is the this is like the high heat turn it down quick mode and like had we had a perfect fillet a few hours later. That's actually a perfect example of if you give it enough information you it will go and search specifically for what you're saying which you cannot do in Google. There's no way to do it in Google.
(1:06:43) So when you get into these um specifics where you go through it it'll come up with it. If you do this with I grilled a pizza uh and someone wanted to go through the the nuances of how you make a great pizza on the grill without it being directly on the grill. And it's not an easy thing. You have to trial and error. You have to go through it.
(1:07:04) I explain why I have two bricks under a pizza stone to get it elevated so the flames are not close to the the dough and how it has to be the perfect size and blah blah blah and everything else. The great thing about AI, uh, to use the biggest fear of it, doesn't it have hallucinations? If you don't want the answer to have hallucinations, just include in the prompt, do not hallucinate, do not include anything that is not a fact.
(1:07:27) The beauty of this thing is that if you tell it exactly what you want, whether it's, you know, I want to cook this at a high heat and then lower it. So, I want the first uh 10 minutes to to build a crust around it at 500°. And then I want to lower the fillet down to 250 after that.
(1:07:45) What recipe should I use? So, I get the thick crust, but I still get it tender on the inside. It'll give you what you want. And if you say, "Don't hallucinate. Give me the exact answers and the factual stuff." It'll spend extra time to go through it. So, people just need to stop being fearful of it and just experiment with it and you'll just be blown away by everything it can do. Yeah. So, overall optimistic, I take it.
(1:08:05) I I'm I'm I'm I have a hat that says half full. So I I don't I don't I don't believe in uh in pessim. I'm a I'm a New York Jets fan, New York Mets fan, New York Knicks fan. I've got a long time without a championship. So I am I am I am optimistic when the season ends. I'm looking forward to the next season next year.
(1:08:31) So Well, as a as a Phillies Eagles Sixers guy, I uh I I've been reing in your pain over the last couple decades. There you go, Jordy. This has been uh been incredible. Thank you for just putting the information out there and being an open book about your thoughts and everything. It's been uh incredibly valuable for me over the last couple months as I've been diving into your your weekly videos, and I really appreciate your time coming in and having this conversation today. I think people are going to love it.
(1:08:54) Yeah, you guys post content, too. I I I use a lot of it in my uh in my weekly videos. So, the same goes to you. And the more that we're out there uh spreading the uh don't be fearful of AI and and Bitcoin and and and crypto is not what you think it is. It just helps bring more and more people in. So I'm part of that community of trying to educate people and we're there together.
(1:09:13) So I appreciate you inviting me. Yeah. We're going to win. As we say here, we're going to win. Exactly. All right. Peace and love, freaks. Freaks. Thank you for listening to the show. I hope you liked it. If you did like it, please make sure you subscribe, rate, review the show. It helps us out a lot. And also, if you like these conversations, I've come to realize that many people listen to the podcast.
(1:09:34) They don't know we have another sort of layer of this media company. We have the newsletter, the Bitcoin Brief. Go to TFTC.io. Make sure you subscribe there. A lot of the topics that are discussed on this podcast I write about 5 days a week in the newsletter. We also have the TFTC elite tier.
(1:09:53) If you sign up for that, become a member. We have a private Discord server for the elite freaks out there where we're dropping adree versions of this show and having discussions about everything we talk about a day early. Logan wanted me to make sure if you want to get the show a day early, become a TFTC elite member. You will get that. We have our Discord server right now.
(1:10:17) conversation between myself and TFTC elite tier members, but we're going to expand that. We'll probably do closed Q&As with people in the industry. Uh I may be doing macro Mondays. So, join us. Go to tftc.io, subscribe, find the button in the top right corner of the website, become a TFTC Elite member. Thank you for joining us. Okay.
