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Bitcoin as “digital capital” gives companies a liquid, compounding treasury asset that boosts growth, resilience, and long-term competitive advantage.
The guests argue we’re still early in the “digitization of capital,” where Bitcoin on corporate balance sheets functions as a liquid, 24/7 reserve that compounds over multi-year cycles, lowers cost of capital via BTC-backed financing, and unlocks real operational wins (cheaper payments, heat-reuse, BTC-native security like sats-stamped email); combined with Bitcoin’s powerful brand and employee-retention effects, this creates a first-mover edge for non-crypto “real economy” firms, a thesis they’re operationalizing with BTC Development Co. (BDCI), a SPAC designed to merge with a profitable private company and allocate substantial proceeds to Bitcoin, while leveraging the network effects of the 1031 portfolio; their bold claim: over the next 5–10 years, S&P 500 survivors will be companies that adopt Bitcoin as treasury capital and an operating substrate.
“Bitcoin is the winner of the digitization of capital… If we’re going to have abundance in digitization of labor, then scarcity reigns supreme.”
“It’s liquid at every moment. You actually have liquidity at every moment of time.”
“Even a 1,000 bitcoin today… could be worth $500 million to $1 billion in 4–8 years, and that would be below trend.”
“Bitcoin is the best brand… one of the most recognizable logos in the world, with zero ad spend.”
“Imagine bouncing emails that don’t carry a 25–250-sat stamp.”
“Some companies we invested in now have more value in their treasury than they ever raised.”
“Buybacks are an admission you don’t know what to do with the capital, Bitcoin becomes a radiating core of energy that grows.”
“The only S&P 500 companies that remain 30 years from now will be those that add Bitcoin to the balance sheet in the next 5–10 years.”
This isn’t just a treasury tweak; it’s a capital-allocation operating system. Bitcoin becomes a compounding, liquid reserve that sharpens hurdle rates, improves financing, and powers process efficiencies, while boosting brand affinity and talent retention. With BDCI positioned to inject meaningful BTC into a qualified private company and fast-track a public listing, the playbook now exists for mainstream operators to become “Bitcoin companies by capital,” not by product, capturing an early, durable competitive advantage.
0:00 - Intro
0:45 - SPAC launch
7:29 - Digitization of captial
13:42 - Three pillars of bitcoin treasury strategy
19:10 - Creating wealth for everyone
21:20 - Bitkey & SLNT
23:09 - Bitcoin’s brand recognition
27:55 - Saylor shifted the narrative
32:48 - CrowdHealth & Unchained
34:06 - Cohen Circle
38:56 - Convergent incentives
45:17 - Merge, don’t sell
(00:00) With Bitcoin at a million over the course of the next four years, it increases the market value of the company. You actually have liquidity at every moment. Yes, you have Tesla has some Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Block SpaceX also has Bitcoin on their balance sheet.
(00:16) But I've been surprised that we haven't seen at least one or really a half a dozen high-profile household names. Because of the appreciation of Bitcoin, some of the companies that we've invested in have more value in their treasury than they'd ever raised. The only companies in the S&P 500 that will stay in the S&P 500 30 years from now are going to be those companies which over the course of the next 5 to 10 years add Bitcoin to their balance sheet and embrace digital capital.
(00:45) Gentlemen, Jonathan, welcome to Philadelphia. It's uh good to be here, Marty. And you know, this is the the first time I've actually been on your podcast. So, really glad to Yes. Glad to be here. You weren't in Austin in 21 when we did it outside in my uh in my porch. The uh How was New York yesterday? I guess we'll start there. Jumping right into it.
(01:10) I mean, surreal again to to be in New York, to see BTC, uh, you know, on the NASDAQ, being able to be there for the closing bell, and then, you know, walking outside and seeing, you know, an a company that, you know, we're looking to do something, you know, monumental with, um, you know, on the large screens in Times Square.
(01:35) Yeah, it was great. I mean, they put together uh such a nice ceremony for ringing the bell at the NASDAQ, but Jonathan and I uh had the privilege of being there earlier this year with Fold and the Fold listing, and we thought, "Wow, that was really incredible to be there for this first Pure Play Bitcoin NASDAQ listed company." And then to be there again within the same year with the launch of uh BTC Development Co.
(02:03) , As Jonathan says, I think it's really a great uh a great signal of of of things to come. Yeah. I think this year with the price movement being relatively flat, I think we're up 11%. this year. Despite that, I think the work the three of us and uh everybody on our teams at 1031 and battery has been doing behind the scenes and many other people in the industry really to build the foundation to send us to sort of this next phase of Bitcoin adoption um as digital capital. We were just talking about that before we hit record. It's a term that I've been a bit averse to, but
(02:42) it's growing on me. And I think what we're doing with the spa sort of highlights that really trying to do something unique and partner with a great management team to do something special. You guys have been working on this very closely. Andrew, I'll throw it to you. What are we trying to do here? Well, I would say at the front end, I've been uh really thrilled by the adoption of Bitcoin among publicly traded companies, but the ones that have announced so far have for the overwhelming most part been uh Bitcoin treasury companies or Bitcoin industrial
(03:25) companies like miners. And you've seen very few um let's just say uh uh companies operating in other sectors add Bitcoin to their balance sheet as a source of corporate strength, corporate opportunity, growth, uh pointing toward the future. I mean, yes, you have Tesla has some Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Uh Block, you know, but they're doing a lot in the Bitcoin space.
(03:52) Some larger companies, high-profile SpaceX also has Bitcoin on their balance sheet. But I've been surprised now since strategy's been uh so successfully uh developing its Bitcoin treasury strategy for more than 5 years that we haven't seen at least one or or or really a half a dozen high-profile household names, whether it be, you know, Nestle or Fruit of the Loom Haynes or um you know, Proctor and Gamble uh or someone you know Tootsie Roll, right? Somebody add Bitcoin to the balance sheet. And what we're doing with the BTC
(04:32) Development Co. uh is really, let's say, um raising a flag for the idea that uh ambitious businesses, growing businesses, businesses that have a specialty in their area can benefit by adding Bitcoin to the balance sheet. and we're looking to invite them uh to work with us to recapitalize their businesses with Bitcoin. Mhm.
(04:58) And this is something we were discussing out in the foyer here before we came in to record, but it is pretty astonishing when you look at the numbers what it takes to break into the top 100 companies that have Bitcoin on the balance sheet and you've been looking through that for the last few days like Yeah. I mean, I was just on the Bitbo.
(05:17) io uh Treasury's website and uh they say that there are 153 publicly traded companies that have Bitcoin on the balance sheet and the hundth one has 26 Bitcoin. So, if you have more than 26 Bitcoin, you could be at this moment in the top 100 publicly traded companies. And they list 34 private companies.
(05:40) Now, of course, that's not comprehensive because there are many private companies. If you read the River Small Business Report, they're talking about all of the small businesses that have been adding Bitcoin to the balance sheet. 34 right now that have somehow made a public filing about their Bitcoin and Rayal Bedford.
(05:58) U it just stood out to me because it's a a well-known company um in the space uh the soccer team from Bedford United Kingdom and they're reported as the 20th largest privately held holder of Bitcoin with 82.7 bitcoin on the balance sheet. So, uh, it's a point where, you know, we the spack that we, uh, just raised, $253 million. It's called BTC Development Co.
(06:22) , uh, trades on the symbol, uh, BDCI on the NASDAQ. Uh the idea is to merge uh with a um with a privately held company and to use uh all or substantially all or a very large part of the proceeds to add Bitcoin to the balance sheet of the new co which will then benefit from the public listing.
(06:51) And so you imagine 253 million if 200 million is used to buy Bitcoin. You know, obviously depending on the price that could round about be, you know, 2,000 Bitcoin on the balance sheet of a company and, you know, with Bitcoin at 500,000, with Bitcoin at a million over the course of the next four years or, you know, in the future, now you're talking about a company that would have just in its treasury a billion, $2 billion, maybe more, and they can borrow against that.
(07:18) They can use that for strategic purposes. So, I think there's a lot of rationale early to uh put a significant amount of Bitcoin on the balance sheet of a of a of an interesting company. And Jonathan, I'm going to put you on the spot. We like to provide alpha on this show and I know you're working on a piece right now about digital capital, but really to build on what Andrew is saying to paint the picture of the opportunity and what we think Bitcoin represents for for companies specifically. Why don't you explain what
(07:48) you're working on this piece? Well, to tie in kind of the first part of the conversation and I'll I'll go into this idea that I'm uh pulling on uh for digital capital. You know, in the conversations that we were having yesterday in the last six years that we've been building 1031 and the, you know, decade before that we've been in the space, you know, we continue to find out like we're early. like this is still early. We're right, but we're early.
(08:22) I mean, it's early that a top 100 company in the public market has 26 Bitcoin. I mean, that to me, that is a glaring signal how early we are. And every year that I'm in Bitcoin, I just realize, man, we are that much earlier than what I thought I was the year before. And so um the the interactions with people who move first in Bitcoin have the largest outside advantage. I mean that is absolutely true if you got into Bitcoin in 2010, 2012, 2018, 2022.
(08:59) your ability to acquire more digital capital. The sooner you make the move, the the larger that allocation to the 21 million and the ability to do that is getting easier because adoption is increasing, but we are still extremely early where we're the first um you know BTC stock that was in you know announced to ever be created like we created it like this is the first so we're We're marking, you know, this time in history where Bitcoin is being more accepted and the fact that we were there at the bell ceremony twice this year. I mean, that has never existed before until we did it. So, like
(09:46) the time is now. And so, going, you know, building off of that to where we are today and how we're, you know, thinking about this idea, the digitization, like what is that, what is it meaning? So as a business you have land, labor and capital. That is what makes up your business.
(10:12) And I think that we've already gone through the first revolution of the digitization of land where you dematerialize the storefront and now it's a website. It's a URL. So any business that adopted the digitization of their storefront was able then to scale without having to have the brickandmortar. We are in the first innings of the digitization of labor where with LLMs, the new AI models, an expert can no longer need kind of a long list of kind of lower analysts.
(10:47) They they they have a lot more power at their fingertips. But also for your individual, they can now become an expert, an assisted expert in certain fields or gain an understanding being able to interact with uh the marginal cost of electricity. Uh the second wave of the digitization of labor I think is going to be the humanoid robots where your initial capex you have a humanoid robot that then will be able to operate uh any manual task. And so that's the digitization.
(11:18) It's very tangible where it is, you know, sucking up the oxygen in the capital markets and, you know, we're seeing the vast majority of uh kind of winnings from companies like Nvidia that are actually a software company but solving the physical constraints of building out data centers.
(11:44) And so we're seeing, you know, that in real time, but the digitization of capital, I think that we've already seen how that plays out. Like Bitcoin is the winner of the digitization of capital because of the um the scarcity of it. If we're going to have abundance in the digitization of labor, then scarcity reigns supreme. and the digitization of capital which is Bitcoin is being adopted today.
(12:10) It's very early in that adoption and that's what we're leading and that's what we're pushing for with businesses such as the the ones that we've invested in through 1031. Then also trying to bring in businesses outside of Bitcoin and traditional legacy uh either finance or industrial that want to exchange equity for this new digital capital because they know that you have to have the digital capital to be able to operate in the future. Yeah.
(12:44) Yeah, and this is something we talk about probably every week, particularly with perspective LPs at 1031, is similar to the internet, the digitization of land, everybody going having ecom storefront. And now today, everybody's an internet company when the internet wave came. And similarly, we believe that everybody's going to be a Bitcoin company ultimately.
(13:04) they're going to need to use the best capital if they want to be productive and grow their business and store the value and the profits of that business that they acrew correctly. Um, and so I think this opens up the aperture to what many up until this point would have viewed investing in the Bitcoin space as people building infrastructure, software, hardware, wallets, mining infrastructure, financial services.
(13:25) But I think what we're trying to do here with this spec really expands the aperture and really trying to pull in companies that you wouldn't think of as a Bitcoin company and help them realize that they can use Bitcoin to do what they do better, more profitably, more efficiently. Absolutely.
(13:47) I I think that there are um for for us in our conversations, it's been helpful for me to uh frame some of the advantages of putting Bitcoin on the balance sheet of a company. And I think there are um many but three primary advantages are Bitcoin as a treasury asset, Bitcoin as a frame for expanding the customer base and for marketing outreach.
(14:13) uh affinity and bitcoin as a uh an improvement for either commercial processes or industrial processes. So, you know, the first one, Bitcoin as a treasury asset. If you put Bitcoin on the balance sheet of the company and you have the ability to hold on to that asset over the course of a 4year, 8-year period of time, historically speaking, you're in for a very significant expansion in the dollar value of that asset. And that gives the company options.
(14:48) Uh, it increases the market value of the company. It increases the enterprise value of the company. It makes it more financable. Uh it is a liquid asset. It's not like you're making an investment that you need a lot of things to go right and then four years or six years from now you might have liquidity. You actually have liquidity at every moment of time.
(15:08) So if something comes up, you can tap that asset for liquidity uh either by hopefully not selling it or otherwise drawing financing against it. And again, if you look at the lower percentiles of historical Bitcoin returns, they've been growing at phenomenal levels. And so, if you were to put, you know, even a 100 Bitcoin or a,000 Bitcoin on the balance sheet of a company today, thousand Bitcoin, hund00 million, you could realistically expect over a 4 to 8year period of time that that was going to be worth 500 million, a billion dollars. And that would be that would be actually
(15:45) below trend growth for the Bitcoin. And as it appreciates, not only could you acquire other companies or invite other companies to merge with you because they're interested in exchanging their equity for this growing base of digital capital. But you can also pull financing uh supported by that Bitcoin.
(16:11) And right now um Bitcoin financing is available uh and it's becoming less and less expensive because more and more capital is entering into that market. And I think that's a trend that will continue. So over the course of the next cycles, few cycles, the cost of financing supported by Bitcoin is likely to prove an advantageous cost of capital for a business that recapitalizes on Bitcoin today.
(16:36) second area which is um marketing and affinity. You know, Mike Germano had a great presentation two years ago at Micro Strategy World and he said uh Bitcoin is the best brand and he went through he said look this is one of the most recognizable logos in the world which is remarkable because there's not a dollar of ad spend by Bitcoin the brand you know because there is no Bitcoin board of directors open- source project supported by everybody in this global community that is really pointing toward uh a sound money future and a
(17:11) digital future. But for companies that embrace Bitcoin and not just as a marketing gimmick, but actually integrate it in the ethos of their activities, they stand to attract a very interesting clientele and a growing clientele. Uh a clientele that uh has a lot of disposable income, has habits of saving, a clientele that uh feels very strongly about the the mission of Bitcoin, which is quite interesting. And so there's a lot of lot of customer expansion that's possible.
(17:43) And the last one, commercial industrial processes. I mean, if you're a business that has payment processing or if you're a business that has uh heating in some element of your supply chain or if you're a business that has, you know, cyber security needs. And who doesn't? Everyone has cyber security needs.
(18:02) There are utilities that exist right now on Bitcoin and many more that will be built in the future that lower the cost of payment processing that create indirect heating as a byproduct of Bitcoin mining and that provide cyber security through things like cyber domes.
(18:26) I mean, imagine if you could protect your corporate email server, not by paying a fee to a company that provides email protection, but by holding Bitcoin on your balance sheet and saying, "We're only going to accept inbound emails from other servers that have a certain minimum amount of Bitcoin, and if each message doesn't have a small digital stamp of 250 SATs or 25 SATs on it, it just bounces off of the Cyberdump.
(18:52) " And now you have protection against fishing and spam instead of as a service. It's it's it's a service of the Bitcoin. And that as that asset grows in value, you you enjoy that appreciation as well. So I think that when you start to think about um the different frames of how a business can profitably integrate Bitcoin, it drives more efficiency.
(19:16) And what Jonathan was saying the other day, which was super interesting, was what it can mean for employees, too. Yeah, we think I mean, we've seen this with businesses and so I'll touch on a few of those. I think there's there's definitely something to to further dive in. Um, but you know, businesses that are being able to provide Bitcoin to their employees, you know, the greatest, you know, cost center for any business is human capital and the the the cost of of payroll.
(19:49) And if you have the ability to incentivize um staff to stay on longer and have less churn, then that's a benefit to the overall business. And so providing capital, this digital capital and Bitcoin to your employees, invest over time, they're not you're not diluting uh the equity of the business, you're providing the capital to the employees is another lever of incentive that you can provide.
(20:17) But um you know to to touch on that last point, you know, we're seeing with the um this digitization of labor with the LLM, the ability to create video and spoofing and that cost now that barrier to be able to do that is exceptionally low. And so there is absolutely going to have to be a need or there is a need that has to be satisfied to for my that has to be paid for.
(20:48) If I'm going to look at an email, if I'm going to answer a call, it has to have some type of value being transferred because the cost to reach me now is zero. And that is we're just inundated with so much like false or I want to say false information, but false advertising false um attacks or vectors to be able to try to uh gain my information or gain, you know, uh my accounts in some way that we we have to have a a modality to prevent it.
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(21:47) This is an incredible hardware device for your friends and family or maybe yourself who have Bitcoin on exchanges and have for a long time but haven't taken a step to self-custody cuz they're worried about the complications of setting up a private public key pair, securing that seed phrase, setting up a pin, setting up a passphrase. Again, Bit Key makes it easy to use, hard to lose. It's the easiest zero to one step. Your first step to self-custody.
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(22:24) We have a lot of hardware that we need to secure your wallet emit signals that could leave you vulnerable. You want to pick up silence gear. Put your hardware in that. I have a tap signer right here. I got the silent card holder. Replace my wallet. I was using ridge wallet because it secured against RFID signal jacking.
(22:41) Uh silent the card holder does the same thing. It's much sleeker. Fits in my pocket much easier. I also have the Faraday phone sleeve which you can put a hardware wallet in. We're actually using it for our keys at the house, too. There's been a lot of robberies. They have essential Faraday slings, Faraday backpacks. It's a Bitcoin company. They're running on a Bitcoin standard. They have a Bitcoin treasury. They accept Bitcoin via Strike.
(22:58) So go to slt.com/tc to get 15% off anything or simply just use the code TFTC when shopping at slt.com. Patented technology, special operations approved. It has free shipping as well. So go check it out. Going to touch on a couple of points that you gentlemen just brought up.
(23:18) Starting with the last one, going through my inbox is daunting. I I don't like to look at my inbox anymore because to your point, it's just all AI slop that has just been thrown at my all my email addresses. It's I I don't like looking at email. So creating it's funny because it's a return to what Adabach originally built with proof of work um when he when he launched it in the 90s was to prevent email spam, but fortunately his proof of work didn't have the difficulty adjustment. Satoshi brought that in and maybe we will find our I I think we will. We definitely will. just looking
(23:47) at my inbox as a problem that needs to be solved. Be returning to that. And to your point on brand and thinking long term, I see this with my children. I have a 5-year-old, a three-year-old. I also have a seven-week old. Congratulations. Thank you. He's not cognizant enough to get it, but you look very good for having a sevenwe old. Thank you.
(24:06) Um the 5-year-old and the three-year-old, they recognize Bitcoin, the brand. Obviously, their father is immersed in the industry, but they just know they see the Bitcoin B and they they go, "Oh, Bitcoin." Like, they know that like thinking long term for businesses that want to be sustainable and be in it for the long run.
(24:24) It's funny because we were having this discussion only a few weeks ago in Utah at our portfolio retreat. Um, and it's shattered house rules. We won't say exactly what was said, but thinking of these generations that are coming up, they're going to recognize Bitcoin as a brand. The they will recognize Bitcoin as a brand.
(24:42) But to touch on the you know the our portfolio we've been you know investing in bit in companies that operate within Bitcoin in in multiple ways but you know we've always you know making the the decision you know to invest in the company like do we want to part with the digital capital for equity uh as kind of that first hurdle and then when we make the investment into the company we're always telling the company okay we think that you should keep a portion of the capital that you raise as long-term capital. That is this your bitcoin. You need to be holding Bitcoin on the balance sheet for long term for
(25:15) all those reasons that you pointed out. And so and we see that um kind of translating today with this um the Bitcoin development company in the same way but we think that we can do that on a much larger scale where we're looking for businesses you know think of a market capitalization of 250 500 750 million that want to reposition a portion of their equity into digital capital for the same benefits that we're seeing kind of on the earlier stage age uh companies that have raised capital for all those benefits. But another fact is because of the appreciation of
(25:56) Bitcoin, you know, some of the companies that we've invested in have more value in their treasury than they've ever raised. And some of these are profitable businesses and some of these are businesses that are at break even that Bitcoin provides multiple um attributes that allow that business to further flourish. And there's an intangible attribute.
(26:20) I had a conversation with Luke Thomas uh good friend of mine starting a new company called Formable AI. But during that conversation we had about a month ago, now at this point, he framed Bitcoin as the best founder coach you could ever ask for because that idea of the hurdle rate, the opportunity cost of your spending.
(26:40) Um, obviously this is in the context of startups, but I think it applies to to any business like there is an intangible sort of effect that Bitcoin has on business owners. I've I've seen it myself with what we're doing at 1031, what I'm doing at TFTC. um it's hard to express but you don't know it until you experience it yourself.
(27:04) And I I think that is something that many people don't recognize. Yeah. I think this goes back maybe to you know we've you know have we corrupted this idea of capital. Capital is the productive use of money. That's the the definition. And you know through the last 40 years we've had the use of debt as capital which um had a a decreasing interest rate up until recently and because of that you were able to further expand and expand on the debt where now Bitcoin as digital capital is reinvigorating a productive use of capital that has expansion capability. So the value of the digital capital that you're
(27:46) replacing or that you're putting on your balance sheet expands instead of uh contracts or drags like debt does on a business. I mean, Michael Sailor has um been an incredible uh force over the course of the last five years, and I think that his work at Micro Strategy Now Strategy uh will be right up there with um the the greats of corporate history, you know, John Rockefeller and uh Dupant and Steve Jobs.
(28:28) I mean he's going to be right up there and the way that he is up there and the way that uh he is able to frame ideas is uh just he's he's extremely talented a very special individual and one thing that he said is that you know companies for decades now almost measure their success by uh leeching the patient you know by uh dissipating their own corporate energy.
(28:58) And they're doing that through uh dividends which are uh not necessarily the most tax uh friendly uh and so you know there's a there's a cost to that a cost to the investor but also a cost to the company. I mean, income has its role for sure, don't get me wrong, but they're also doing it through buybacks. And those buybacks, uh, he's characterized that as an admission that the company doesn't really know what to do with the capital and they think they have too many shares outstanding, so let's go out and we'll reduce the number of shares. And companies are penalized
(29:32) actually for holding cash on their balance sheet. investors think, well, this is not a good use of corporate resources. Let's take it over, reposition it. It should either be dividended out or a recapitalization or we should do a big buyback program. And um you know that means that companies are actually in a more vulnerable position because they don't have a lot of resources on their balance sheet as a whole. And what he said is with Bitcoin, it's it's actually quite uh quite a different it's an it's an inversion of
(30:09) that concept where you can take Bitcoin which is liquid 365 days a year, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. Uh it's fungeible. All Bitcoin is the same uh around the world. It's divisible into 100 million units right now, 100 million Satoshi's. It's universal. It's weightless. It's transparent. Uh it is programmable.
(30:34) It's so many useful things and it has tended to appreciate very powerfully over time. And so if you're a company and you put this asset on your balance sheet, you then have this this radiating core of energy that's growing and you can use it to power all of the things that you're doing.
(30:56) You can use it for employee motivation and employee retention. You can use it to reward stockholders in the future with uh either future business growth, future acquisitions, or even maybe you're drawing future dividends against the Bitcoin as a very small amount of the outstanding uh notional value, you know, when looked at four years, eight years, hence u you can use it for these industrial processes, commercial processes.
(31:23) I mean, it's such a powerful tool. I think that I think that we're going to see a big rotation in terms of the the the household names of corporate finance over the course of the next probably uh 15 to 30 years. And the only companies in the S&P 500 that will stay in the S&P 500 30 years from now are going to be those companies which over the course of the next uh 5 to 10 years add Bitcoin to their balance sheet and embrace digital capital.
(32:04) The ones that fail to make this transition are going to fall out of the echelon where they've become very accustom. The ones that do make the transition will uh be able to take advantage of all of their market position, their manufacturing facilities, their product offerings, their research and development and grow them stronger and many new companies will enter into those ranks and they'll become tomorrow's household names.
(32:33) Just like 30 years ago, you know, you could ask an investor uh who's going to be in the S&P 500 and people would not have said the list of uh you know, technology companies that now dominate uh that index. Many of them weren't even founded yet. And we're going to see that same kind of rotation again. Suffra's healthcare open enrollment has started. It will roll through the end of January. Opt out of traditional health insurance, which doesn't care about you. It's impersonal. It's expensive.
(32:59) They deny an increasing amount of claims. Premiums are going up. You don't have to live this way. You can opt out. I opted out four years ago and joined Crowd Health. I've been a Crowd Health member. Very happy Crowd Health member for four years. I've had two children. A couple of health events in that time period.
(33:12) And Crowd Health has been there. You pay a monthly fee. You contribute to the crowd. We were paying $1,800 on Cobra as a family of three. Now we're paying around $900 a month as a family of five. And that's with Crowd Health and Direct Primary Care. You can opt out of health insurance. Go to joincrowalth.com/tc.
(33:30) You're going to get $99 a month for the first three months if you use the code TFTC. Join crowdhealth.com/TFTC. Sup, freaks? This group was brought to our good friends at Unchained and they are holding another live event you should check out. Markets are choppy, layoffs are in the headlines, and rate cuts aren't fixing the core problem. That core problem is that the fiat retirement system is taking on water.
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(34:05) Register now at unchained.com/tc. unchained.com/tc. I think that's what positions us well in the spa well is that we have the expertise uh having been I've been in Bitcoin for 12 years now. 1031's been investing across the space. We've seen every company in every vertical in our somewhat niche industry right now.
(34:25) But to your point, it's going to grow and we have the expertise and the capital to help supercharge your business. And that's what we're we're looking for. We're looking for companies. We're looking for strong management teams that want to adopt digital capital, that want to be the first in line to make that transition.
(34:48) you know, we're we're not solving tomorrow's problems with yesterday's tools. This isn't a rock that we're putting on a balance sheet just because we think that it can store value. This has all those attributes that you just talked about being weightless, uh, programmable, um, infinitely divisible.
(35:08) I mean, that is new tools. Those are that's a that's a new ladder to reach new heights. We don't need yesterday's uh abilities to solve tomorrow's problems. And so being first, being early to Bitcoin, you have been rewarded. It is um you know, first mover advantage and we are still in those very early days. Yeah.
(35:34) I mean, I guess I just want to uh build a little bit on what Jonathan is saying, which was, you know, in part the point of doing this podcast is actually to invite inbounds uh from people. We want to hear from companies around the United States uh around the world that want to embrace digital capital are looking for uh a turnkey way to really engage very powerfully with the Bitcoin ecosystem to put a significant amount of Bitcoin on their balance sheet and to benefit from the increased liquidity of a public listing. I mean that's the point of talking about uh this here today is to
(36:19) uh really begin to build uh a mental map of who are the companies around the world that are tuned into this frequency and you know we are looking to uh advance those dreams and to take that those ambitions and uh and and really deliver them into u a NASDAQ listing.
(36:45) which is, you know, I mean, to be at the the bell ringing ceremony yesterday, they have this uh and and one lucky listener today will join us. Uh and hopefully more than one because we'll do, you know, we'll do more than one of these uh because I think there's this deep vein to pursue. But, uh, you know, when when when you come to that listing ceremony and you're ringing the bell right there at 40, uh, 42nd and, uh, Broadway at the, uh, crossroads of the world, as they call it.
(37:20) Um, they have this inspirational, you know, video that they show right before the bell ringing ceremony and then there's like this confetti that comes at the time and it's really pretty fun. But that inspirational video, you know, you see people uh, you know, they're training, uh, they're running, you know, they're they're they're they're lifting. You see, uh, somebody who's showing up early to the to the store and flipping the sign says open for business.
(37:44) and you see someone, you know, hard nights, uh, working and making all of the sacrifices that any business owner is accustomed to making in terms of the amount of intensity, the focus in order to grow the business, the discipline in order to grow the business. And just thinking about rewarding those uh traits for companies that are now really seeking, as Jonathan put it, to uh you know, to climb a taller ladder and that ladder made possible by Bitcoin.
(38:18) I think that's a really it's a really exciting frame. I personally am very uh I'm very interested to see what we receive as a result of this podcast in terms of you know the the very interesting businesses that are looking to pivot toward Bitcoin or private businesses that already have Bitcoin on their balance sheet and they've reached a certain size and they're really ready to go to the next level.
(38:43) I mean that's great too. It doesn't have to be brand new. I've never worked with Bitcoin before. It could also be somebody that, you know, already has Bitcoin on the balance sheet. And I just think I think I I expect that we're going to be really inspired by by what comes our way.
(39:01) And it's not just, you know, adding digital capital or being, you know, trying to plug into Bitcoin. one at more point that I I I don't think that we should u gloss over because it's extremely powerful and just to juxtapose this the room you are in before you go into the studio you go in you look at all the businesses that have um gone on to ring the bell and they show great businesses uh Apple um I think Nokia there was um uh other robotics companies and like they have the their individual uh like product that they've created like in a showcase around and when I was
(39:47) in there I was I was thinking like oh yeah these this is really interesting you know uh these are great businesses but there's no connection between those businesses and what we've see in our portfolio is real portfolio network effects the companies that are building in Bitcoin because Bitcoin is an open system.
(40:11) Any business who is building on Bitcoin, whether it's directly or indirectly, is having an overall benefit, raising the tide of every business that's operating. And so any business who plugs into Bitcoin is going to benefit every other business around. So whether it's strike or fold, unchained, upstream data, giga energy, Satoshi energy like these are so great businesses that we are interacting within the Bitcoin space, but they're also interacting with other businesses around and so any new business coming in will benefit from the network effects
(40:48) and be immediately plugged into the 1031 portfolio. Yeah, I mean I think I I I'd like to comment on this one because you know um I mean when we first we we first started working together actually as Battery uh our investment platform that is adding uh Bitcoin as an additional collateral element to long-term financings and improving financing terms for borrowers for commercial real estate for project finance many different kinds of financing structures and 1031 invested in that uh company and has been a wonderful partner to us and since then
(41:26) of course we've expanded our activities together and now are also partners on this um uh BTC development company but firsthand here you know I have experienced I think it's going to be if there are any students from Harvard that are listening I think that this is the perfect Harvard Business School uh case study study for them to write about.
(42:00) It would be a really wonderful thing to profile what 1031 has done with what you call the network effect bringing your portfolio companies together. Right now it's about 40 on a regular basis and saying how can you collaborate with one another and cross-pollinate and create new ideas and brainstorm and share one another's tools and and and and uh Bitcoin services and it's more than just encouraging that because what you said is actually it's really uh the magic of Bitcoin which is that Bitcoin is a common equity that all of these companies share.
(42:34) If you were running, if you were running, you know, I don't know, a health care fund and you invested in a series of innovative platforms that were looking at developing new pharmaceutical treatments or new therapies and you brought them all together for, you know, an annual meeting.
(42:53) To a certain extent, they might benefit from, you know, learning what the others are working on and maybe they would form friendships or what have you. But it wouldn't really be the case that if one of them succeeds, the other one's experimental drug is buoied. There's no shared equity. But the model that 1031 has developed, which is Bitcoin only, focused on the best builders in the space, focused on companies that are leaning into Bitcoin, creates this really strong incentive system that's very, very powerful. And the idea now with BTC Development Co.
(43:29) is, you know, again, it doesn't have to be a Bitcoin business that's, you know, building a wallet or doing mining. I mean, it could be many different kinds of business. It could be a consumer products business. It could be uh, you know, it could be uh a retail business. It could be a media business. Uh, it could be, you know, really any different kind.
(43:54) We can brainstorm a few uh in the next few minutes. adding Bitcoin to the balance sheet and then having the opportunity to work with all of the leading Bitcoin companies in the ecosystem and just have this turnkey entree into the market. And we've seen it break out of our portfolio to just I believe it was last week or the week before Strike announced the partnership with BitKey owned by Block which many would perceive as a competitor but they now have a partnership where people can automatically sweep the Bitcoin they buy on strike to a BitKey hardware wallet. Similarly Cash App bit key too they use
(44:30) mempold space for blockchain analytics. If you're receiving or sending a transaction and you want to see where it is outside of BitKey or Cash App's walls, you go to mepool.space, which is a 1031 portfolio company. These are little attributes that benefit both companies at the end of the day. It's a positive sun game at the end.
(44:53) I mean, the more work that's put in that everyone puts in, everyone benefits from. It's like as if, you know, everything that I do, you do, Andrew does in in invites the fact that we're all going to win because of it. Coopetition, as Jame Lop liked to said. I think that that was a great phrase that he popularized uh at least in the Bitcoin context a few years ago.
(45:19) And so I think that's the pitch. We're looking to really find a company that's looking to take it to the next level. Partner with experts in the space that have an incredible network that can really help accelerate your transition to digital capital. It's growing on me. It's growing on me. Yeah.
(45:40) $250 million enterprise value, $500 million enterprise value or more. You know, the SPACK that we've created is a a really interesting tool because um although SPACK is an acronym that stands for special purpose acquisition corporation, as a matter of fact, uh really these are mergers.
(46:05) And what what we're seeking is to merge the capital that we have raised uh ideally as much of it as possible into Bitcoin, but some of it could be used for other working capital needs uh into a private uh to merge that private company into the spa and then the combined company trades under uh under a new symbol on the public markets, benefits from listing on the NASDAQ which is one of the most liquid stock exchanges uh in the world and you know we're not um seeking uh to acquire the business and you know uh replace the management I mean absolutely the contrary in fact what we're seeking to do is to make a strong minority investment in the business support
(46:52) management teams that have proven track records of success that want to uh catapult their business, vault their business into this digital capital future, into this Bitcoin future that see the real tangible benefits of working with the team that we um all are a part of in terms of the Bitcoin connectivity and I think it's probably also worth mentioning it's more than worth mentioning it's it's a a really uh prime factor is that uh there you know there's another set of partners on our team which is the Cohen family and Cohen Circle uh and Betsy Cohen, Daniel Cohen,
(47:33) Amanda Abrams, Jeff Bloomstrom, Brace Young, uh this whole group that uh I've been working with now in different capacities for uh going on 25 years. Uh they have just an exceptional track record uh of building extremely successful and innovative publicly traded companies in financial services, in energy, in real estate, banking.
(48:05) I mean, Betsy, you know, began uh Jefferson Bank uh in the mid 1970s and, you know, sold that to Hudson United. Uh some years on in the late 1990s, Daniel and Betsy began the Bank, which was uh the nation's uh among the nation's first purely digital banks. And that was in the I mean, I think in 2000 that was started.
(48:35) uh and you know you can just see a pattern of really being ahead of ahead of their time and uh most recently over the course of the last decade they've completed countless spaxs and I had served as a director on uh the board of one of those spaxs uh which uh ultimately was the first engagement with the Bitcoin theme for the Coins which was the acquisition of Fold and Fold of versus a company that was is is was and is part of the 1031 portfolio.
(49:07) And I had come to know Will Reeves, the CEO, and and and develop a real um appreciation uh for his vision for the company and for what he has built at Fold. And Jonathan, of course, is very involved in the management there. And you know, we uh merged with Fold and now Fold is publicly traded and enjoying the benefits of that public liquidity. and after the success of that of that initial transaction came together as a group and organized BTC development co and just uh just priced it I think maybe three weeks ago at this point.
(49:41) So you know we're very much uh in the top of the funnel process. We're looking to build a roster of companies that meet these general characteristics that um are already seeing a lot of success in their core market where uh the ownership uh would be able to perhaps recognize some liquidity by becoming publicly traded. Uh would benefit from bringing strategic investors into the company.
(50:14) would benefit from the capital raising possibilities of having a public listing uh and um you know already has two years of audits. That's a very important factor. But uh and really perceives the value of putting a significant amount of Bitcoin on the balance sheet and engaging with the Bitcoin community.
(50:40) So, I think it's a it's it's a very nice team that that that we've brought together here and yeah, I'm just I'm extremely uh interested to see what comes our way. Of course, we're actively looking, but we thought that, you know, we I mean, we thought that it made sense because of the spirit of the Bitcoin community where uh so much of it happens on podcasts.
(51:06) We wanted to reach out to the number one podcast in the space, TFTC, and say, "Look, this is this is an interesting opportunity. If there are listeners who are out there who maybe have been putting Bitcoin on their own personal savings and investing plan for years, but they have a business in, you know, um in in in in the commercial uh window space or they have a business in manufacturing or they have a business that's consumerf facing.
(51:33) they have uh you know a nice retail footprint and they want to somehow position that into Bitcoin or they have uh you know a fashion business that's been growing rapidly and they want to embrace Bitcoin as uh as a trend within the products that they're making and add Bitcoin to the balance sheet.
(51:52) Whatever the business is, a media business, a portfolio of radio stations, you know, digital media, whatever the whatever the case may be, you know, those listeners who have been saying, you know, I'm not really a Bitcoin miner. That's not how I'm going to get in the space. I'm not going to spin up a wallet or, you know, some of the other more uh what you might think of as conventional Bitcoin business plans, but you have a very successful business in its own right, and you feel like that business could be powered up with Bitcoin, you know, that's that's really um I'm I just can't wait to see
(52:28) what what what comes out of this. Neither can I, gentlemen. Jonathan, any closing thoughts? We'll end with you. Uh just to you know further build on you know what Andrew was mentioning there at the end. I mean it could be businesses in the oil and gas orphan like c like large portfolios of calf orphan wells.
(52:53) I mean we have businesses that can monetize at the well site. Um there's also businesses that you know are stream where you can put Bitcoin mining along the energy stream. So there's there there's a lot of ways to be able to plug in to Bitcoin or to companies within the Bitcoin space to elevate your business. Um we're really excited.
(53:20) We um are very happy to have partnered again with the Cohen family, partnered with Andrew again. And I'm I'm excited for what the the future holds. I'm I'm bullish on humanity. I'm bullish on our endeavors. Jonathan, if someone listened to this podcast and they want to reach out to us, how should they do that? You should reach out at uh spa1031.xyz. Awesome. And we say it a lot here at TF TFTC at 10:31. We're going to win.
(53:52) So come join some winners. We're going to win. Gentlemen, thank you. This has been a pleasure. Thank you, Marty. Thank you for listening to this episode of TFTC. If you've made it this far, I imagine you got some value out of the episode. If so, please share it far and wide with your friends and family. We're looking to get the word out there.
(54:12) Also, wherever you're listening, whether that's YouTube, Apple, Spotify, make sure you like and subscribe to the show. And if you can leave a rating on the podcasting platforms, that goes a long way. Last but not least, if you want to get these episodes a day early and add free, make sure you download the Fountain podcasting app. You can go to fountain.fm to find that.
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