podcasts
Miljan Braticevic argues Nostr and Bitcoin offer the only path to true online sovereignty.
The episode highlights the UK’s escalating internet controls, age verification laws, VPN bans, and censorship, and their implications for personal freedom, framing open protocols like Nostr as the only real alternative. Unlike closed platforms dominated by corporations, Nostr distributes power across thousands of relays, giving users sovereign control over their identity, money, and speech. Braticevic points to innovative use cases such as Jack Dorsey’s mesh-network “Bit Chat,” AI-driven app creation, and Bitcoin micropayments, arguing that Nostr’s openness, not just censorship resistance, is the true breakthrough. He likens the ecosystem’s small but passionate user base to Bitcoin’s early days, noting that its resilience and flexibility make it uniquely suited to outlast and outperform closed networks.
“Once you go down this path of trying to control everything, where does it end? We want to be free.”
“Open protocols give us that chance to fight back and resist… with closed platforms, one rule change is the end of the story.”
“We’re not fighting the existing system, we’re building a new one and enabling people to join if they wish.”
“This type of architecture is extremely resilient and hard to stop… Nostr is about building an internet worth having.”
“Nostr in my mind has no competitors. If you want a truly sovereign network where users hold the keys to their existence, this is it.”
“The killer feature of Nostr isn’t censorship resistance, it’s openness. Data can be recombined in endless ways to build experiences impossible in closed silos.”
“AI, Bitcoin, and Nostr together form an extremely exciting intersection. AI agents will need sovereign money and open protocols to function.”
“We want Nostr to be the best place for creators of high-signal, long-form content… with open monetization models that work across clients.”
“The passion of Nostr’s early adopters reminds me of Bitcoin in the early days, it’s the strongest signal that this will endure.”
“If you’re in the UK or anywhere facing these policies, get on Nostr before you need it. You already need it.”
This episode underscores the urgent stakes of today’s digital landscape. As Western governments like the UK pursue aggressive censorship and control, the choice becomes stark: submit to closed systems where accounts and speech exist at the mercy of authorities, or embrace open protocols that guarantee sovereignty. Miljan Braticevic presents Nostr as the foundation for a new internet, one built on openness, interoperability, and Bitcoin-backed incentives. Though adoption is still small compared to mainstream platforms, the passion, creativity, and steady infrastructure growth mirror Bitcoin’s own trajectory. The episode’s core message is clear: resilience and freedom must be built proactively. By adopting Nostr, supporting open-source tools, and experimenting with these systems now, individuals and creators can prepare for a future where sovereignty over money and speech is not optional but essential.
0:00 - Intro
0:31 - Creating freedom apps
12:29 - Who runs the relays? Not comparable to Bluesky
17:53 - Bitkey & Unchained
19:34 - Boostrapped by bitcoiners
24:47 - Primal features tease
33:52 - Obscura & Opportunity Cost
35:17 - UK going full Orwell
42:00 - AI - open source models and open data
54:23 - Nostr as marketplace - also the Great Intersection
59:49 - Looking forward over the next year
1:04:32 - Fountain
1:14:45 - Primal publisher
(00:00) Once you go down this path of trying to control everything, where does it end? We want to be free. People who like to censor and all these monstrous organizations, they're doing their thing and we're doing our thing. We're just building a new system and enabling people to join them as they wish. The majority of the internet is controlled by five corporations.
(00:20) Open protocols give us that chance to kind of fight back and resist us. The bar for usability is being set by these multi-billion dollar companies who've been at it for, you know, 10 years plus. [Music] Million, is it me or is the world going crazy? I guess those two are not mutually exclusive, right? But uh the world's getting crazier by the day for sure.
(00:47) Yeah, more interesting, more chaotic. Yeah, it feels like uh feels like we're we're at like a hard not a hard fork, but like a fork in the road and there's things are incredibly exciting, powerful, and optimistic. And then you have other things like uh I originally reached out was like three or four weeks ago you were on a little vacation.
(01:21) So we scheduled it for this but it was talk about the UK aid verification laws censorship and the importance of open protocols like Noster but things have just escalated since then. They want to ban VPNs now. Totally. I mean once you go down this path of trying to control everything like where does it end? You you kind of really need to uh you know close all the exits as they like to say all the escape routes. Yeah.
(01:46) Well, I mean it ends uh I don't want to smirk here but it ends typically with campsuffering mass death if you continue continue down the path. That's why it's important to leverage the tools that we have today in terms of open protocols um and the communications technology to get the message out. That's the big agreed.
(02:13) That's the big question I have is like are we at a point in human history where we have all these tools at our fingertips? Can we actually use them to prevent at least in western society the devolution into pure Orwellian socialist communist authoritarian hellscape? Well, the open protocols give us that chance, right? Like if if we're clos if we're using the legacy closed systems, we just don't have a chance, right? Like because that's a single throat to choke.
(02:47) If uh any government uh makes any new rule that forbids uh you know certain type of speech um if you're dealing with a closed platform it's the end of the story you know they'll just have to tell X or whoever you know close this down and companies need to apply comply and that's the end of it that content already exists only exists behind their kind of wall in their walled garden since they fully control it they and they certainly can comply and the governments know that.
(03:22) Uh when it comes to open protocols, I don't think we automatically win by default just because we're using open protocols. Open protocols give us that chance to kind of fight back and resist this. But there's still quite a bit of work uh that needs to be done um by a lot of people to um to win, so to speak. And I'm not like super gloomy about all of these things that are, you know, that we're seeing everywhere.
(03:50) Um, I kind of look at it more from the point of view of, hey, this is, you know, this is a test for us. This is something that's uh that's giving us an opportunity to grow, to uh step up, assert our own sovereignty uh over our online lives, over our wealth, our money, our transactions, and so forth.
(04:15) Um there are a number of us who build tools uh for people who wish to step up and use them and uh like I said we we get that opportunity and it's up to us to see how we're going to use the tools uh to assert our our sovereignty. Yeah. Somebody on the the bleeding edge of the open protocol that is Noster, what are what are some of the unique ways you've observed people not only leveraging Primal but just leveraging Noster to really stick a eye in the or needle in the eye of sensors or creating cool applications that that leverage Nostra relays in some way to create
(04:57) robust applications that that are very hard to censor. Yeah. I don't even think it's about sticking a needle in the eye of anyone, you know. It's just like we we want to uh be free. uh we you know the people who out there who would like to censor and all these you know monstrous organizations they're doing their thing and we're doing our thing.
(05:20) We're we're not necessarily fighting the existing system. We're just building a new system and uh enabling people to join them as they wish. Right. And to answer your question, lots of new stuff being built all the time. Uh a lot of it is really exciting. Um, you know, not even talk about Primal.
(05:44) So, outside of Primal, the the cool things we've seen on Nostra recently, um, is, uh, for example, Jack Dorsey's Bit Chat, uh, app, which he vibe coded over a weekend, which uses uh, Bluetooth enabled mesh network to communicate with devices that are in close proximity to you.
(06:13) close proximity meaning you know 20 30 mters maybe 100 ft or so and then you know you can so you can kind of relay messages directly uh to one another without even needing an internet connection and then when any one of these users gets an internet connection they can you know upload those signed messages to any relay and then replicate them further.
(06:40) So this is a really neat use case which I think uh this kind of network topology I think is extremely um appropriate for Nostra. It's Noster is perfect for this because the protocol is so simple and it's comprised just out of signed messages and each of these signed messages exist can exist on its own. kind of has meaning just uh each individual message on its own kind of stands uh on the firm legs so to speak so to speak.
(07:13) Uh so the more of these messages you have the more you sense you can make out of the network and uh you can broadcast them you know to those that are close to you. You can broadcast them to relays. You can index them. Index them and so forth. If they get deleted from any relays, you can repost them to other relays. This type of architecture is extremely resilient and uh hard to stop.
(07:42) So, uh I really love this as the foundation for the new internet. What we're trying to do here with Nster, by the way, uh for those who might not be paying attention on a daily basis, we're trying to fix the internet. We're trying to um you know, uh fix all of the broken incentives and and the kind of the current predicament we're in, which is that basically the majority of the internet is controlled by five corporations, right? So this is uh about building an internet worth having and uh we are well on the way to doing that with Noster. So for example this bit chat application came out of nowhere
(08:20) like nobody was really thinking in these terms uh you know prior to Dorsy launching it after a weekend of vibe coding. Then of course Kali uh he Dorsy launched the iOS version. Then Khalle very quickly vibe coded um an Android version and I think both of these bit chat applications are now uh in production like in full uh app stores. So so app store and iOS and play store on Android.
(08:51) Um they're open source and they continue to be developed and it's a beautiful um example of what can be done just by a few guys and then adopted by a bunch of people and uh who wish to kind of take control over their uh communications. So that's one great example. Uh another one is uh the work that Alex Gleason is doing with um Shakespeare. I think it's you can access it at Shakespeare. DIY.
(09:24) Uh so basically it's um it's an AI vibe coding tool that enables anyone to build no apps with just prompting in English. And what's different about this tool um compared to many other vibe coding tools is that it leverages the open Nostra network.
(09:50) So uh there are a whole bunch of uh problems that you already have kind of pre-solved for you like you don't need a back end because you can rely on the public relay infrastructure that already exists on Auster which is formidable by the way. Uh I think this this doesn't get maybe mentioned enough. um you know people compare Nostra to other networks and you know um often it's like apples to oranges specifically because of the uh the fact that um anyone can run any part of Nostra infrastructure uh that's not a very common occurrence in these type of competing networks but
(10:29) not only that it can run there's so much evidence that like there's this is being run like any part of the Nostra infrastructure is being stood up by a bunch of different people sort of independently without any central planning or or control. So when it comes to relays, uh last time I looked there were almost 3,000 active relays of just like people and companies and projects. Whoever wants to stand up a relay can.
(10:58) So we end up with uh this public real infrastructure that can be used by anyone to publish content but also to do interesting things like build uh you know vibe coded apps that don't need a back end and then you get noster identity and the web of trust for free which is all open out there and of course you get payments because like bit bitcoin microp payments are kind of blended in with nster so you have these incredible building blocks all of which are open.
(11:31) And then you get this new generation of AI tools which are still a little janky but getting better where you can vibe code whatever comes to mind and kind of plug into this network. Try doing any of this with a closed system. Try doing any of this with X or any of the other closed platforms. You just can't. Yeah. And we're seeing it particularly in the context of Bitchat with the Android U Play Store, Google Play Store.
(12:00) I've seen Cali posting a lot about the back and forth he's had with the Play Store. It's hilarious. Yeah, it's hilarious for him as he was going through this, but it's just like hilariously bad how these systems are and how much gatekeeping they're doing and how inept they are at this. Sorry, I cut you off, Marty. Go ahead.
(12:24) No, I was going to say there's profanity in the name of the app. Ah, yes. No, but you brought up relays, which is very promising to see because I'm having flashbacks to Nostriga in Ria Lafia last year where I vividly recall you on stage with Michael Tidwell and uh I I believe the conversation is who will run the relays and so I think you mentioned it.
(12:50) There are 3,000 relays being spun up by individuals and companies. I guess anchoring back to that conversation on stage in RIA around this time last year. Has the sort of network of relays surprised to the upside is where you expected it to be when you were having that conversation? Uh yes it has so far but to be fair um the conversation was like how does this scale to kind of global scale right? Uh so there is definitely uh the ecosystem that's sprouting around Nost uh that kind of contains u app developers there probably 200 different apps that are built on Nster the relay infrastructure the indexers the media hosting services all of these
(13:35) things are extremely impressive like it they are definitely surprising to the upside so uh when people look at Noster and compare compare it to other networks. Uh usually the only metric that's used for comparison is the user numbers and Nostra user numbers are you know quite a bit smaller than something like let's say blue sky like orders of magnitude we're looking at um and by the way these these numbers are not super precise.
(14:09) We do some indexing and we do web of trust analysis to understand who are which which accounts on the network are bots of which there are millions. So we don't want to count them as kind of humans but we use web of trust huristics uh to uh figure out active humans and we're probably looking at maybe 70 80,000 uh users who are active uh on Auster.
(14:35) So this is a very small network from in that regard when compared to something like let's say blue sky which measures millions of users. Uh but these are apples to oranges comparisons. uh because blue sky is ran by one company even though they uh define their uh protocol I think it's called at protocol um you know they run the only instance or by far the biggest instance I think there's something called black sky 2 that's a much much smaller one uh but essentially they control everything that happens in blue sky including your account so basically if you uh if they decide you don't want to exist. You you
(15:17) shouldn't exist. You're gone. Right. The vice president experienced this. Yeah. Oh, okay. All right. Is it Oh, yeah. That happened to JD Vance, right? Yeah. I think like some of these things are hilarious. People show up on Blue Sky and and post something like there are only two genders just as a as a feeler and they're gone. They get they get immediately removed.
(15:42) It's like, oh guys, this is not even up for debate on on this network. And the backstory of course is that a lot of people who got uh upset by Elon's takeover to of of Twitter uh moved over to Blue Sky. So that's kind of their user base and those users are demanding censorship basically from the people who are running Blue Sky.
(16:11) They that's that's kind of the the way they like to operate online. So, and the blue sky u leadership is happy to oblige. Uh so, so that's what we have there. So, going back to your question, you know, you can't really compare Noster to Blue Sky in that in that sense. Um Noster in my mind has no competitors. uh if we're looking at a truly self-s sovereign network where all the users hold the keys to their online existence uh which cannot be revoked by anyone uh you know no single Noster service provider has power over over your existence on Noster over your ability to
(16:57) you know uh post or view content um that's very different uh from um all of the competing networks. So we have people who hold their keys and then we have as I mentioned previously many people who run the infrastructure without any central planning or coordination.
(17:23) Those both of those um requirements need to be met in my mind for something to be a truly decentralized network. Otherwise, you're it's sim similar to comparing Bitcoin to an altcoin. Yeah, you might be holding your private key on Salana, but uh you know there are a couple of guys that run their network and you exist there at their pleasure. So, it's very similar.
(17:50) It's it's that kind of comparison is uh appropriate, I think, uh when it comes to Noster and other competing networks. Sup freaks. This RIPA TFTC was brought to you by our good friends at BitKey. Bitkey makes Bitcoin easy to use and hard to lose. It is a hardware wallet that natively embeds into a 20 or three multisig.
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(19:02) So, what's next? Tester is back with the 2025 edition, refreshed for the midcycle moment, packed with new data, new insights, and TUR's latest price outlook. Plus, you'll get exclusive access to Charting Our Way Through Chaos, TUR's new 30inut Q3 2025 presentation explaining why this bull run might be only just beginning and what forces could push it to the next level.
(19:20) Read the first ever midcycle report from Adamant Research at unchained.com/tc. That's unchained.com/tc. And also, if you're using Unchained, you can use the code TFTC for $50 off any of their services. Go check it out. Matt and I were discussing this in RHR uh I think two weeks ago. Not at this point, but it feels like I mean when you look at whether it's Blue Sky Farcaster base is uh what is their social network is it base is based the social network Zora? I think it's uh it's still based on Farcaster. Yeah, I think it's the same network still. Yeah. and they're all pumping big numbers. But to your point, when you
(20:02) really get down to like brass tax, like what are these networks or uh dino decentralized the name only? And uh there is a lot of hype around them in the sense that Coinbase is really trying to get people to use Zora and use USDC to the do the equivalent of Zaps uh on on that network. But when it comes to true freedom tech open protocols, I think it's objectively true that Noster is a different animal than all of them.
(20:39) Even though it doesn't have the adoption of blue sky, I'm not sure what Coinbase's Zora app is at right now. But I I think Nostra is sort of existing somewhat in the background, but has this slow, steady, methodical buildout that is well underway. If you actually pay attention and look at the ecosystem and the growth of the ecosystem and the number of apps and different types of apps more importantly I think bit is a perfect example of just using relays as sort of like a fallback for when you're are not in a 30 meter vicinity of the person you're looking to chat with that the
(21:21) sort of new open web is being built out methodically. It's not getting nearly as much shine as I think it should be getting, but I actually like that too. It reminds me of Bitcoin in the early days where you have this intolerant transient, not transient, but uh, you know, sort of intrigent minority that's really dedicated to building this out.
(21:48) And that's the signal I look for is like it it may not seem like Noster is as big as these other things, but the sort of effort, the energy focused on ensuring that it gets built out is not only still there, but from my observation getting stronger by the day. Yeah, I think many of the comparison to comparisons to Bitcoin are appropriate, including this one.
(22:18) Um I prior to discovering Noster, I tried to design my own protocol that would kind of try uh attempt to solve these same issues. And my protocol wasn't anywhere near as good as Noster. It was way too complicated. Um so when I when I discovered Noster, um it was like um you know, a revelation. I knew right away it was going to work and I was just interested in how good it could get.
(22:42) But going back to the days when I was trying to come up with my own protocol, I knew that a protocol like this had to be bootstrapped by Bitcoiners. There was just no other way. There was no other group out there uh that has the culture of both holding keys and running nodes. So we go back to the same, you know, point I made earlier.
(23:09) You know, Farcaster, you mentioned it's interesting. uh far caster users are holding their keys. Uh so so that's that's good, but who runs the infrastructure? Nobody in the Ethereum land or altcoin land has uh you know the the incentives or the any interest to run the infrastructure.
(23:36) So you actually end up like a few big players running everything for everyone and they have um pretty much full control over the network. Um so um Nostra is different. Nostra is different without any doubt. You can tell you know uh uh the specs are being kind of done in the open. It's a little bit of a it's as messy of a process as you would expect it to be at this early stage.
(24:00) Um but uh things are be getting stood up, things are getting better. um the uh kind of core app experiences are improving I think uh rapidly um and uh you know whoever let's say has multiple touch points with Nost you know with with maybe 6 months in between or something like that they I'm sure are seeing like massive improvements and that's going to continue and it's going to accelerate just by knowing what's in Primal's road road app uh you know things are going to get uh excellent and very interesting but also uh many other projects there are hundreds of them uh so it's amazing to see and I love being
(24:45) a part of this ecosystem well you alluded to it are are we allowed to tease what's on the primal road map to anybody I guess uh I did it to myself didn't I usually usually I don't like talking about uh features that don't exist just yet. I I prefer to announce uh availability. Uh but at the high level, um at Primal, we would like to lean more into long- form content. Uh and we've already done that to an extent with our previous with the 2.
(25:18) 0 release. We've done a pretty elaborate implementation of uh long- form textual content. So blogs, articles, things like that uh are a main tab on Primal and kind of are a first class citizen both for discovery and kind of consumption and so forth. Um and as of recently uh we shipped um you know Primal Studio back in June um a product that's aimed at content creators.
(25:52) So we kind of uh completed that offering for long- form content where you can you have kind of professional uh authoring environment uh for for this type of content. So we'd like to lean deeper into long form content uh with better support for long form video uh in Primal 3.0. So that that is going to be kind of a main theme.
(26:18) Uh we're going to build uh essentially a YouTube/Rumble competitor um that is fully open and that utilizes of course Noster uh for kind of publishing and messaging. But when it comes to media hosting, we're using protocols like Blossom uh which allow users to uh post uh binary content or media media content onto multiple um kind of media servers to kind of enhance resiliency and censorship resistance and so forth. So that's the kind of highlevel uh theme.
(26:54) Um, and by the way, all of these things already exist on Aster. The specs are there. There are many clients that do a pretty good job already with videos. We're just building a more integrated experience into Primal so that you can kind of have, you know, feeds, reads, and videos kind of as kind of top level tabs.
(27:15) And maybe I'll kind of give you some thinking behind this. So there are many different directions you can go into with a product like this. Um, social media these days is defined by feeds and uh some some products like Instagram or especially Tik Tok went super far into creating these like very addictive kind of low consciousness kind of endless mindless scrolling type of feeds because they um they monetize attention and that that kind of seems to work best there.
(27:57) So uh in my mind there's no sense in competing with them in that in that kind of segment. uh we this isn't something we want to build and even if we wanted to we probably couldn't build a better Tik Tok than Tik Tok like we couldn't you know uh the types of things these guys the the amount of spying on users and kind of uh the the patterns that these guys are willing to do to enable a product like this we we just are not interested in.
(28:26) Um so I think the correct move for primal is to go firmly in the opposite direction. So firmly into kind of high signal nuanced content uh you know long form high consciousness content that uh will uh enable content creators who really wish to um provide high signal content to their users. We want Noster to be the best place for them. So that's what we're building at Primal. Yeah.
(29:00) And I've seen the benefits of this. I mean, obviously Matt and I, we live stream RHR every week to zap.stream. And the amount of zaps we've been getting week in and week out, it's a material amount of money. I think we're each making like anywhere from like 200 to on good weeks like $700 a pop, which is crazy. Um, we've gotten a million sats in one episode before.
(29:27) And so like there is the ability to not only distribute the content, live stream the content on this distributed open protocol, but you can monetize it in real time. And I I I've always I mean, we've had these discussions. I've always thought the ability to easily monetize the content by combining Noster with Bitcoin is going to be the killer app that really takes hold someday and we're beginning to see it.
(29:53) I think the emergence of the uh the vlogs, the vlogs of the last few weeks is is evidence of that, too. And that's been like a really interesting sort of social experiment uh on Noster specifically like trying to create and I I really like that Huddle um sort of started this trend. And who knows how long it will last.
(30:12) It will just be a a short ephemeral trend. But I think it's fun nonetheless. But trying to create unique content specific to Noster that other people sort of pulls people to the protocol because that content's only living there. He's killing it, isn't he? Yeah. Uh and uh you know the Bitcoiners who are not on Auster are are um missing out.
(30:36) In fact, like he he started something that that got bigger and many people are killing it now. It's it's interesting. I don't know if it how much staying power it has. Maybe that it has a lot, maybe not. But one thing is kind of remains constant on Austster over the past couple years, two three years that I've been participating in which is like people are having fun there like they're having fun with different things and experimenting with a bunch of stuff.
(31:03) uh and some of it sticks, some of it doesn't. But similar to what Dorsy was talking about in Twitter's early days where he said that um all of Twitter's features were um kind of created by the users hashtag or at uh mentions and like a bunch of other things were just uh you know um them the product people observing how the users are using their product and then reacting and kind of tweaking it to make it easier to do the things that the users are already trying to do. So there's so much of that going on in Auster. So the Noster uh user base
(31:46) is kind of we can say small in kind of global terms but very formidable um in terms of how um enthusiastic the users are in terms of how technically competent many of them are. It's very interesting to build for Noster because many uh Noster users are actually developers.
(32:10) So you get this uh very competent feedback constantly that helps you improve the product and so forth. And I was kind of looking at it and comparing it to let's say Bitcoin Twitter uh just kind of to ballpark things to try to understand you know the relative sizes of these uh communities and uh I would say it's it's formidable.
(32:35) So for order of magnitude kind of some of the best estimates I could um get to for Bitcoin Twitter is about 150,000 active users and Noster has about half of that probably in terms of active users. We might be underounting Nostra users too. It could be that some new new users who just joined didn't quite make it fully into the web of trust in terms of being followed by other accounts and so forth.
(33:00) So, we might be undercutting it, but let's say it's half. Um, and that means if you're a Bitcoin content creator and you're not a master, well, you're missing out on probably half of the potential audience that you could have. Uh, and on top of that, you get kind of uh new people that are getting into uh who are not Bitcoiners who are getting into Bitcoin kind of just because they end up hanging out with a bunch of Bitcoiners in Aster and kind of get into it. we have many such cases. So, so there's that as well. Um, and um,
(33:35) I don't know if the Bitcoin Twitter group is growing or if it's been kind of similar size over the years, but I think it's like I said interesting to compare these two groups and Nostra is already formidable and only one of those um, groups is holding the keys to their speech. So, Freak Cis was brought to you by our good friends at Obscura. Obscura is the first VPN that can't log your activity by design.
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(35:21) And that and that that's like the big question going back to what we started the conversation on and I wonder if the sort of Orwellian pressures that are beginning to increase particularly in Europe UK specifically do they drive people to to Noster and that's why I wanted to catch up and this was like a month ago when the age verification laws but things seem to be escalating there was a woman um the the commissioner of children in England was on the BBC two days ago um vehemently expressing her desire to uh put age verification on VPNs um which would render VPN services moot uh in the
(36:00) first place. And um I was telling you the second biggest demo that we have here at TFTC beyond the United States is the UK. And I'm curious if you've seen any indication that that people are experiencing these are welling pressures and falling back to open protocols like Noster. So we've experienced some growth on Nostro in the past few weeks.
(36:26) Uh and we've been trying to kind of figure out what to attribute this to. Uh within the Primal team we we're seeing kind of um significantly higher user numbers. Um, and then, uh, we don't do any tracking. So, we don't really know where these people are coming from, but we're trying to decipher if it's if it's all American Huddle bringing, you know, new new users through his vlogs or um, in fact, this phenomenon started happening prior to him starting vlogging. So, probably that's not the answer. Could be a
(37:03) combination of things. Uh, but I think it's a factor. uh that uh you know many people who are aware of where these types of things are leading to uh in these countries and outside of these countries too uh are starting to look at alternatives and those who have done enough research and critical thinking might be um uh realizing that Noster is the best um alternative there.
(37:36) So yeah, we are seeing uh increased user numbers and probably these um new policies in UK, Europe, um I think Australia too have something to do with it. Yeah, I would hope that people recognize that these tools are there because it is crazy like you can't voice your displeasure in these in these countries without being put on a list and having the police come knock on your door which is probably good um building on that point in terms of onboarding to nostra for people in these countries again you have a private public key pair and you can attach some human readable
(38:21) name to your profile. So like best practices probably don't put your real name uh spin up a name. Yeah, I mean that the the uh process of onboarding itself is the first step that the that right away you can see the difference between the centralized legacy platforms and uh open protocols. when you uh create an account on X, let's say, you're given this account by by this corporation, this is something that they give to you and something that they can take away from you at any point. In contrast, when you're on an
(39:04) open protocol like Noster, you claim your key pair. You take this massive number out of the universe and that's your private key. So you've claimed some territory in this like massively large name space or of of you know numbers and then you've claimed something and this is yours and then you defend it.
(39:32) This what what a what a stark contrast between these two and then everything is downstream from there. Um so I think that uh holding our keys and uh existing and operating with these open protocols is our only chance to uh assert and reclaim uh our sovereignty both in terms of money and transactions and wealth as well as speech and online communication and publishing.
(40:04) There's just no other way. uh we need to all step up and um be sovereign online. Well, those of us who are interested in that seems to be like a small minority currently, but that's fine potentially. I think I I'm trying to quantify these numbers too.
(40:26) It's like how big is the uh kind of world population who is even interested in this? And it's far from a majority currently. Maybe the pain is not big enough for most people to be interested in this. But I think the silver lining of you know things like co like what we went through uh during the few years of co is that many people woke up and if let's say prior to this maybe 1% of the population was interested in these types of topics and asserting their sovereignty and so forth. Now we have multiples of that.
(41:00) maybe we have 5% of people. So, still a minority, but it's five times more. And from that standpoint, things are moving in the right direction. And the crazier these uh policies get, the more people we're going to have who care about this. So, all we need to do is to make sure that the tools exist uh for them uh to use when they're ready to and that uh the infrastructure is robust, etc.
(41:31) , etc. So I kind of tend to take the optimistic point of view behind all of this even though you know you see some of these uh things go down and it's like could feel desperate you know like what's happening in the UK that's wild and I'm kind of shocked that people don't push back harder but then you you know look back at co and go like oh yeah people people take a lot yeah people did take and It's shocking and that that's what I wanted is like does the quality of life have to become so degradated that you're like forced to push back and find these tools. Um but we don't have to belabor the negative. Let's
(42:15) talk about potentially something more positive and negative. I think this is probably one of the sharpest double-edged swords that exist in the world today, which is AI. um in the intersection of AI and Bitcoin, AI and Noster, different ways to leverage it. We've been leaning into AI generated video to get the Bitcoin message out there or help people understand the problems that that Bitcoin is attempting to solve.
(42:44) Um and then there's many other ways we use Bitcoin or excuse me, AI on the back end to sort of automate processes. What uh like and as it pertains to AI, I think there's three things I'm interested to hear from you. Like how at Primal are you guys leveraging it like to build the business? God, I got to turn these off.
(43:05) Um two, um what have you seen in terms of unique AI applications in the Nostra uh landscape? And then three, like what are your thoughts on like the cool use cases of AI to particularly from a marketing propaganda perspective that people should be leaning into to draw people to to Nostra and other open protocols? Yeah, I think those AI videos are probably a good example of how quickly things are uh evolving there and how quickly these tools are getting better.
(43:37) Like a few months ago, you would see those videos and they were just terrible. And now we're at the point where they're not terrible. They're actually pretty reasonable. But you can tell it's AI. Uh and probably won't be long before they they get uh much better even from here.
(44:09) Um, so I think when it comes to AI and the um and and how it relates to open networks like Noster, I think there's something very interesting at the intersection of open-source AI models and open data o and open uh kind of social graphs and open kind of user directories and things like that. uh I think it's uh leveling the playing field quite a bit has the potential to do that.
(44:39) Uh so of course uh currently only the biggest companies have the resources to train new AI models and they you know even though they all lar openness they kind of keep the the kind of most powerful models uh closed and kind of in control. Uh so that's an interesting dynamic. Um and then you know you we see these models coming out from China who these guys are kind of trying to catch up and they have different approaches because they don't have uh access to that much um kind of compute power because in theory at least they can't get access to the same uh GPUs but they have unlimited uh you know
(45:24) electricity almost and then uh like they're kind of forced to optimize their algorithms a little bit better. So we had this um situation with deepseek a few months ago which was as good as the best closed models in the west for a week or two.
(45:47) You know you kind of have to take these snapshots in time and kind of assess who is where and these things move almost on a weekly basis. Um, so you asked about Primal. Um, so we do what you would expect a company like Primal to do. So we use of course AI tools for some of our internal kind of coding uh efforts and you know QA and testing and stuff like that. As you would expect, we're not really vibe coding our products.
(46:20) uh we're doing it the oldfashioned way by hand, but there's a lot of uh kind of uh kind of AI tools that you can use in the process to make your you more um kind of um productive as a developer. So, there's that. We're looking at automating some of our business processes using AI tools and we're kind of at the beginning of that. We're still, you know, a very small company.
(46:46) We're eight people. Um and I think what's interesting you know standing up a new company like this at this particular moment in time I think uh it will and these types of tools will enable a company like Primal and many other companies there you know uh in noster alone there's probably half a dozen companies of our size um or bigger uh so these types of tools will enable companies of our size very tiny companies to serve millions of users just because we can leverage you know our um uh kind of power using the uh the tools. So that's exciting I think. Um
(47:31) and then of course we need to productize uh some of this and offer uh capabilities to uh our users. So for example, something like Grock uh is extremely powerful um on X. That's probably the best feature on X currently. I think uh it would be great to have something like this uh on an open network based on an open source model.
(48:02) Uh so this is something that we uh will be looking at, you know, down the line at some point when when we uh after we ship 3.0 with the video. um capabilities and stuff like that. Um so yeah, uh that's kind of the range of uh AI uh thinking that we're and kind of uh leveraging that we're doing at the moment. Grock, is this true? Maybe the uh the NASA version should be Corg.
(48:31) Corg, is this true? Um it is uh it is fascinating and it's really cool to see like to your point of the individual users having agency not only via private public key pairs and just joining a protocol like Nostra and having that freedom. You see users wanting to give back and I I saw one of a Primal user make a commercial for Primal uh using these AI generated videos.
(49:04) um the one with the zoo freeing the animals uh from the cages. That was really well done. That's that was incredible. Like I woke up one morning and opened Primal and I saw that and I was like, man, like how amazing. You know, our users are are creating this type of content and the message was super crisp.
(49:29) Uh it was I I um uh I recommend everyone to go check it out because it sort of um kind of leaned into this whole uh idea of oh we're the most connected we've ever been. But it's al also superficial and the level of actual human connection is probably at an all-time low. like when you look at the rates of uh you know um young people getting married and having kids and stuff like that like these things are not looking great.
(50:00) Um so anyway I'm butchering the message here. Everyone should check out this uh video that was created by one of our users. We reposted it on the Primal account and also my own. Um it's it's extremely rewarding. uh you know because as you know we we are constantly in touch Marty uh it it's a lot of hard work like we're we're we were kind of we work night and day to build these tools so they are um you know at the level of usability that users are used to and the bar for usability is being set by these multi-billion dollar companies who've been at it for you know 10 years plus
(50:44) and they have uh you know uh they're dealing with just like a closed centralized system which is easier to develop against. Uh in contrast we have you know a small group uh of of people mind you in a in a bigger uh community which is all open sourced trying to catch up in terms of feature sets and uh you know uh UX and stuff like that performance.
(51:16) So we work day and night and it's nice like occasionally we get these incredibly rewarding moments uh when uh you know when we observe people use our products and also appreciate our products enough to put in the work to create these types of uh this type of content. So that was amazing to see. Yeah. And that's what you want to see too. Like that's a signal like all right we're on the right path that people Yeah.
(51:44) feel so passionate about the product, the protocol, that they're out there spending their time, money, and effort to to make sure that they can help push it along, which is going back to your point about the early days of Twitter. That's sort of what you want to see. It's incredible.
(52:02) And uh you know, Sam Alman of all people made a really good point years ago in some presentation. Uh so you know like even though we probably don't see eye to eye in just about anything uh this point made sense to me and and I remember it frequently which is um he was trying to uh I forgot it was some sort of presentation where um probably to entrepreneurs or investors I forgot but it was about how to uh spot fads like the in terms of like big waves that are coming in.
(52:41) How to distinguish between something that's going to be a fad, you know, it's going to taper off versus something that's going to really take off. Like in the early days, you you as an entrepreneur, you're investing your everything, your all your time probably wealth and so forth to go in a certain direction or as an investor, you're kind of putting your uh your uh LP's capital on the line and so forth.
(53:08) So, how can you tell if of course you need to do it early for this to make sense? So, so your earliest so how can you tell if something is going to be big or if it's going to taper off to nothing? And he said a very good indicator is uh how passionate the early adopters are. That's that's the kind of that's what separates uh you know the iPhone from VR sets. VR sets you know even though quite a few got sold but they they're all kind of sitting on a shelf somewhere collecting dust.
(53:46) Um and uh there just wasn't the the signal was there from the early days like the the uh you know the early adopters even though they bought the sets were not that excited about them whereas you know the when the iPhone got released everybody told all their friends and you know was flexing their new device and so forth. Um so I think that's correct.
(54:11) Uh that's the correct assessment. And then uh if you look at Nostra's user base, well, we must we we can only be super bullish about where this is going. Yeah. a lot of power users and that like and again going back to the point I made earlier of if you're not paying attention you probably should be because if you observe over time the amount of effort being put into building out the protocol building out apps like Primal but other non social media related apps as well it's growing and it's becoming more robust in terms of the sort of opt
(54:53) optionality of different ways you can interact with the protocol. And one thing again, it's already saying I think the the first real market is the market for attention on Noster um and monetize via Zaps.
(55:15) But it's it's one thing that makes a ton of sense to me is like Nostra is this open protocol to create marketplaces. Um the killer marketplace right now is posting content and getting zapped for it. But um you're beginning to see the emergence of um data vending machines to buy AI compute. still early days there, but even physical marketplaces, people selling physical goods using Noster and the MPUB sort of web of trust to to facilitate trade and just curious to hear from you like what what is your perspective on Nostra as a marketplace and what you're seeing in terms of that maturing. So, just to back up a little bit, you
(55:53) mentioned AI, Noster, and Bitcoin. The intersection of those three things is extremely exciting, right? because um AI agents need some self- sovereign money to uh you know do their work and you know the especially the more sophisticated they get the less likely uh is that they'll accept Salana or USD right so uh and then uh the ability to interface with other systems in an open matter and kind of plug into uh open networks works uh without requiring access to proprietary APIs that can be switched off, right? You have to be bullish about the intersection of those uh three
(56:41) technologies. Um and as far as uh marketplaces are concerned uh yeah there are already marketplaces on Auster um and uh the uh ability to utilize this uh open uh social graph and open web of trust as it grows uh to create more powerful marketplaces is is there right so um for example let's take Amazon product reviews, right? Um, if currently they they're built in a closed silo by Amazon and that's it.
(57:26) Basically, you go and look at a product and they sort those reviews in a couple different ways, but basically uh you're extremely unlikely to see anyone there among the reviewers who you know. How amazing would it be if you were to uh look at a product or a travel destination uh or anything else that where user input and user reviews are kind of uh relevant and important in your decision-m and to uh have these things sorted by your web of trust by the people that you are connected to in some ways and uh so so that you can see how they are valuing
(58:08) a certain product or service. So, um this is already being built on Noster and you can you can tell how when the internet gets open again because of Noster how glorious this is going to be and uh guys like Alex uh Switzky with his Atlantis project uh are doing uh something like this. This is very interesting project on Auster that uh people should um check out that kind of showcases the versatility of the protocol.
(58:44) It's not just uh you know Twitter clones that are being built on Noster. You can literally build anything. And the killer feature of Noster uh isn't necessarily censorship resistance. This is kind of what people talk about a lot. I think the killer feature is openness. The fact that all of these uh all of this data is open and can be combined in a number of different ways uh to build new experiences and new product categories that are not even possible currently when you deal with a bunch of kind of closed silos.
(59:22) Yeah, I think that's a a very good point. I think and it's not to say that censorship resistance doesn't exist and it's not a killer app but I think the openness the the flexibility with which that gives end users and probably more importantly builders is extremely powerful. Yeah, sovereignty for users, builders and creators is is a big deal. I agree.
(59:48) I feel like we do this every time you come on, but I think uh terms of forward-looking guidance, we're we're going to we're going to adopt some Fed speak here. Uh forward guidance on dot plot coming up. What uh what do you see happening? Primal over the next year, Noster generally over the next year catalyst for for more people waking up to this.
(1:00:20) Is it possible to tell or do you even worry about is it just heads down day take it day by day brick by brick? Yeah, it's very hard to predict the future here unless you're building it of course. So, uh, I I have some visibility in what's in Primal's road map, of course. But, um, you know, if you asked me 3 months ago to, um, predict kind of the most exciting apps on Noster, I would have not said Bit Chat and Shakespeare. I would have said something different.
(1:00:54) So like the the when you have such an open network with so many creative people uh participating in building without permission uh the uh the activity of trying to predict what they're going to build is frivolous. Basically you're not going to make it. I I think it's still useful uh in some ways to kind of you know brainstorm and and try to imagine things.
(1:01:19) But the takeaway here is that we're going to get surprised by some apps uh that nobody saw coming that are just taking off. And that's that's so amazing to see because every such app is adding more gravity to the network. It's add it's bringing in new users potentially and then those users might be might kind of show up for bitat but stay for other things for for vlogs.
(1:01:51) Um, and as for Primal, um, yeah, so like I said, this, um, long form, high signal content is something that we really want to lean into as hard as possible. So, we want to create the best possible uh, user experiences for consu finding and consuming high signal long- form content. This includes text and video and potentially sound down the road and so forth.
(1:02:19) Uh we also want to uh uh uh build uh great tools for content creators uh to be able to post and manage this type of content on Austster in in a way that kind of feels familiar from kind of the uh more centralized legacy platforms. So basically to bring the long- form content UX for both users and creators in in uh kind of highly polished shape is is our goal.
(1:02:46) And then um to lean even deeper into it. So basically what I'd love to see is I'd love Nostra to become the best place for content creators who wish to create high single content for their users. And uh part of it is going to be of course in addition to zaps the microp payments that you mentioned that you know people can uh do on an ad hoc basis for a particular piece of content.
(1:03:17) In addition to that, we want to have uh paid subscriptions for content creators so that uh creators can create one or more paid tiers and uh create kind of simple rules regarding how their content is um distributed so that uh they can better monetize the the work that they do with directly with their audience.
(1:03:45) Um, so those are kind of implementing all of the above in a way that's polished and just works. Uh, but also open. So, you know, when we create when we say paid tiers, these are not primal, you know, paid tiers. They're nostster open paid tiers that should work in any other Nostra client. Um, so the specs for this already exist. we need to just lean in and kind of implement them correctly.
(1:04:11) So implementing all of the above is quite a bit of work. So we have our hands full at Primal just kind of doing these relatively obvious things. Uh but that's kind of been the the uh uh MO at Primal where we uh you know we try to make basic things work well. That's if at the high level that's what we do with Primal. Yeah. No.
(1:04:35) And I the uh fountain guys, they've they've released paid tiers for the podcast and we've implemented that here at TFTC um and at RHR. So if you're listening and you want uh you want adree episodes day early ad free day early episodes at TFTC, subscribe via Fountain. Adree episodes of RHR subscribe via Fountain. But I think I love it.
(1:04:59) The reason I bring it up and Fountain for anybody who's unaware is a podcasting app that is also an Auster client. Um, so it's been really cool to lean into that. But from the content creator perspective, I've been talking to uh Oscar and Nick from from Fountain about this. Like the onus is on us as well to really drive people to these clients.
(1:05:25) And that that's I think I'm beginning to really understand this with Fountain specifically. It's like you can actually make more money, more Bitcoin at the end of the day by participating. It's not only uh the onus is not only on Million Oscar and others building Gleon, Jeff building all these clients. It's on the end users really driving their audience.
(1:05:47) And so that's one thing we've made a point of and that we've actually see it convert into higher revenue is like pumping like hey come support us on Noster via fountain and you'll get a better product um if you do these paid tiers and um it's it's led to more revenue for us. But the point overall point being is the onus isn't only on Million and others building out these clients.
(1:06:14) It's on us as power users really trying to drive our audience there as well with simple calls to action and we've seen it converting pretty well in the last two weeks as we've been doing it more. Let's go. Uh I love Fountain. It's another one kind of very highly polished Noster client. Um they were they existed prior to Noster but they when Noster kind of took off they moved their membership over to Noster and they are using Noster feeds now and they're using Noster events for likes and trending things also for live streams.
(1:06:47) It's great to see u and again another example of the versatility of this protocol. Just imagine everything, all the apps, all the products you're using, if they were on the same open network and you could use the same uh online identity controlled by you to access all of these uh apps and services. Uh that's what we're building on Auster. Yeah.
(1:07:14) And I think just building on the fountain example, it's really cool cuz I'll go into Primal, I'll check my notifications and I'll see somebody um write a comment and there will be a fountain link to a particular episode and they're commenting on that episode. So I can see it in Primal and it's just like in the stream of all my other notifications, people zapping, liking, sharing posts.
(1:07:36) But then I'll go over to Fountain and to speak to the versatility of the protocol like that comment will be in a specific episode. like I'll go into an episode that one comment that was in a flood of other notifications uh on Primal will be sort of consolidated with other comments specific to that episode um in in the fountain client and it'll aggregate the amount of sats that were zapped um to that particular episode and you get like a consolidated sort of conversation around that particular episode in Fountain, but in Primal it's sort of just in the flood of everything else
(1:08:12) happening and so I I think that's like a stark example of of the versatility you can get with these clients. Yeah, what a great example. Because what actually happens in this open network is these uh these artifacts, the comments, the zaps, the episodes, you know, the the posts exist as kind of signed messages that they're that they're kind of published to on to relays and every app developer gets to decide how to present them to their user.
(1:08:47) and uh the uh different apps have different competencies and different uh kind of points of view in terms of how the data should be presented. So uh Primal is mostly kind of a social media client with uh you know notification feeds and stuff like that. So as Marty described uh it makes sense for us to display this uh these uh events in in that form.
(1:09:12) But Fountain is predominantly like a, you know, music/podcast player. Uh, and they're plugging into the same data, but they're they're showing it in a way that makes sense for their use case. And it's it's a kind of mindblowing moment for a lot of Nostra users when they log in with their private key in in another app and see a bunch of useful content already there for them. And it's sort of like the app already understands who they are.
(1:09:40) And there are many such cases. There is another for example let's say if we look at uh long form textural content like blogs, articles and so forth. Um you know there are already uh closed legacy platforms that do a pretty good job in in this area like Substack or Medium. Um, and you know when you post an article, people can comment, people can highlight, and all of those comments and highlights get kind of trapped inside of that closed silo and no one will kind of ever see them outside of it.
(1:10:20) And as a consequence that you don't even get uh that much uh even traffic the the many users kind of uh using these features um where in contrast on Noster you publish your article it exists on uh as a signed event on a on any Nostra relay and then um any app developer can use that uh that artifact in any way that makes sense within their app.
(1:10:59) Within Primal, we decided to make long- form articles uh first class citizen within Primal. So, we kind of have a dedicated tab and you can list all of those things there. But essentially um in other clients people might decide to do it differently. But then when you interact with that article when you uh post a reply or even when you do a highlight that highlight uh is an oster event that's signed event that gets published to a relay and then it's it exists in this open network for anyone to kind of see and interact with and there's all kinds of experiences that can be created around that. highlight alone for example you know highlighter Pablo's highlighter
(1:11:37) is uh you know um an Auster app that's kind of for creators but also for consumption that kind of uh creates this whole dedicated UX around highlights right there's a highlight feed and so forth so these are just some examples where we're scratching the surface of what can what can be done when all of this exists on an open network and we're just we're very early still.
(1:12:07) Uh we're still in the kind of process of catching up to the legacy uh kind of closed players in terms of capabilities and UX. But uh at some point soon we we will have caught up and when we overtake them, it will be very stark. It will be like it will be about implementing experiences that are just not possible in closed silos. So all of this is very exciting.
(1:12:31) Yeah. It's uh it really is. And I think again I don't want to belabor the fountain point, but like it is so cool going from like Primal to Fountain. It's like, "Oh, I saw this in Primal." Like it's almost um like as a creator like I'll just be checking notifications on Primal. we'll see that some fountain related link is in in a notification that like reminds like all right I got to go over to this client to see how this particular episode's doing and like and then I go over to fountain and I get like a consolidated sort of diagnosis on a
(1:13:10) particular episode and a notification of Primal sort of let me to to go take that action and then it like things get it sort of blurs the line of what products are and we've talked about this before like what is a business at the end of the day and um how are businesses going to be created in the future and I think as you were describing um the the sort of different ways in which this is all compatible and interoperable with each other I think the best business uh builders in the future is going to be
(1:13:45) incredible curators right like curating specific experiences for specific types of users and specific context and it's just having like a creative curative mind that that is really going to set people apart. Yeah, I agree. we are seeing proliferation of uh content uh you know not least of which is a bunch of AI slop out there but that's getting better too but in in a sense where um yeah curation becomes uh a very important feature maybe the feature right like so uh I I keep repeating one of our goals at primal is to enable people to find you know high signal
(1:14:31) content that's relevant to them, right? Um, so and then to provide a great user experience around consuming it and also creating it for creators. Um, yeah. Well, on that note, I disclaimer 1031's an investor in Primal. But this is an unbiased opinion putting my TFTC uh newsletter writing hat on.
(1:14:58) The Primal publisher is the best I've come across on Noster. you made it so easy to just upload and publish the content in a very intuitive way. As somebody who's worked with a bunch of different back-end publishers, not only on Nostra, but Mailchimp, WordPress, Ghost, uh you've made it very simple, very intuitive. So, thank you for that. Thank you, Marty.
(1:15:23) Uh that was a lot of work but uh you know it's all open source by the way like everything that we do at Primal uh is open sourced under the MIT license which is the most permissive license. So that means that anyone can take any part of our code any part of our product and um do anything they want with it including building competing products. Uh let's go.
(1:15:53) I mean this is how this entire uh network is being built and we are certainly standing on the shoulders of many giants to even be here. So uh it it's it's good vibes all around and I think good business in the long run as well uh to build out this open network in an open manner and bring the capabilities forward uh so that people can have the tools they need in their time of need which seems to be about now.
(1:16:21) Yeah, if you're out there, you're not on Nostra yet, you're living in one of these countries. UK, I know you're second in our in our audience. I know there's some of you out there listening. If you're not on Nostra, get on. You want to be on before you need it. And you already need it, but you may need it more um in the relatively short term.
(1:16:40) Million, thank you for doing what you do. Thank you for joining me again. Any final thoughts for the freaks out there? Well, thanks for having me, Marty. That was great. Um, I will say, you know, like you said, thank you for doing what you're doing and like that's acknowledged. Appreciate that. Thank you, Marty, for doing what you're doing.
(1:17:04) All of the things that you do, like, you know, uh I, uh, grew up in Bitcoin listening to you and Matt day in day or week in week out back from, you know, 2017. uh you guys helped me avoid all the shitcoinery just because uh the the points you guys were making just made sense to me and I was mildly interested in Ethereum from the technology point of view until I figured out that both the tech and the people behind it are you know uh not not something I want to invest time in.
(1:17:40) So, um, all of like there might must be countless people who you guys helped educate on these topics and I'm super grateful to um be a 1031 portfolio company. I think 1031 really stands out as uh as a venture investor in the space with high principles and uh uh you guys really um you know when many out out there LAR about being being founder friendly and kind of uh mission aligned. Uh you guys walk the walk.
(1:18:16) Uh so thank you and and Matt and the rest of the 1031 team uh for all your support. Um many more years of development uh you know and building uh to come. And so thanks again and thanks uh for having me on the show as well. Well, Millian, it's an honor and a privilege to be walking the walk with you, sir. We're going to win.
(1:18:39) Let's go. Peace and love, freaks. Okay, freaks. Thank you for listening to the show. I hope you liked it. If you did like it, please make sure you subscribe, rate, review the show. It helps us out a lot. And also, if you like these conversations, I've come to realize that many people listen to the podcast, they don't know we have another sort of layer of this media company. We have the newsletter, the Bitcoin brief. Go to tftc.io.
(1:19:03) Make sure you subscribe there. A lot of the topics that are discussed on this podcast I write about 5 days a week in the newsletter. We also have the TFTC elite tier. If you sign up for that, become a member. We have a private Discord server for the elite freaks out there where we're dropping adree versions of this show and having discussions about everything we talk about. a day early.
(1:19:33) Logan wanted me to make sure if you want to get the show a day early, become a TFTC Elite member, you will get that. We have our Discord server. Right now, it's conversation between myself and TFTC elite tier members, but we're going to expand that. We'll probably do closed Q&As with people in the industry. Uh I may be doing macro Mondays. So, join us. Go to tftc.io. Subscribe.
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