Whitney Webb and Mark Goodwin on the Carbon Credit Coup
Transcript — TFTC
Article: https://www.tftc.io/debt-slavery-carbon-credit-coup-whitney-webb
Transcript page: https://www.tftc.io/debt-slavery-carbon-credit-coup-whitney-webb-transcript
Published: 2026-08-05
Machine transcription, lightly cleaned; may contain errors.
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[0:05] Marty Bent: Sup freaks, it's your boy Marty here to introduce this rip of TFTC. It was brought to you by our good friends at River, the best place to buy Bitcoin. River makes it very easy to buy Bitcoin, to sell Bitcoin if you want to do that. You shouldn't sell it. They actually have a new, a new thing at checkout if you're trying to sell Bitcoin. Michael Saylor comes out and says, are you sure you want to sell Bitcoin right now? Probably shouldn't. You should DCA into Bitcoin. River makes it very easy. You can set it and forget it by daily, weekly, monthly. If you DCA using River, you're not going to pay any fees on those buys.

[4:27] Mark Goodwin: Okay.

[4:35] Whitney Webb: You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. Let me talk about a Fed just gone nuts. All, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven.

[4:47] Mark Goodwin: I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor.

[4:57] Whitney Webb: I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin.

[5:00] Marty Bent: If you're not paying attention, you probably should be.

[5:02] Whitney Webb: Probably should be.

[5:03] Marty Bent: Probably should be. Ooh, Logan, that was a quick trigger. I didn't even get to finish my sentence. We jumped right into it. Whitney, Mark, welcome back to the show.

[5:12] Whitney Webb: Hey, great to be here.

[5:14] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, thanks, Marty. Great to be here.

[5:16] Marty Bent: Well, thank you, Mark, for, for getting a proper mic for this. The audiophiles who listen to the show are going to be very happy.

[5:22] Mark Goodwin: This is, uh, uh, I am a man of the people, and when the people, uh, yell and scream, I listen. And I respond and I throw money at the problem. And here we are, loud and clear, coming through.

[5:40] Marty Bent: So, yeah, the audiophiles, they attack me. The YouTube comments, it's like, make sure your guest has— I'm like, I can't control the guest mic. And Freaks, if you're listening, it's not like I side channeled with Mark. He listened. I didn't even have to tell him.

[5:55] Mark Goodwin: Right.

[5:55] Marty Bent: He's got the mic. We're here to talk about something, Whitney, I think me and you started talking about this broader subject last year with Ian Davis with the Sustainable Development Goals series that you guys wrote and this attempt to monetize swaths of land, natural resources throughout the developed world.

[6:17] Whitney Webb: Yeah.

[6:18] Marty Bent: Mark and yourself wrote a piece, came out April 4th, so 12 days ago, Debt from Above, the Carbon Credit Coup. It seems like there is an initiative to push these efforts forward that involves a lot of things, particularly satellites and Bitcoin sidechains. So I think before we touch on the broader topic, maybe we can touch on that later. Let's talk about the specific piece that you two co-wrote. What is going on?

[6:47] Whitney Webb: Right. So let's start off from like the broader part. So yeah, like I came on with Ian, I guess a year or two ago, and before that I came on with you to talk about Natural Asset Corporations, talking about this broader effort. One of the people leading this, of course, are people like Mark Carney, trying to recreate the global financial governance system, recreate the multilateral development bank system. And a big part of this is juicing up voluntary carbon markets and making them voluntary in name only and really making them involuntary carbon markets. And there's a lot of reasons why they want to do this. Specifically, it's a big shift towards, I guess, supercharging commodities and tokenizing them for this coming financial system.

[8:14] Mark Goodwin: It's Government Reduction of Emissions for Environmental Net Plus Gain.

[8:19] Whitney Webb: I had like some of the words in there.

[8:21] Marty Bent: Whatever.

[8:22] Whitney Webb: Thanks, Mark.

[8:23] Marty Bent: They're getting, they're getting, they're getting crazy with these acronyms. Nobody's going to remember that.

[8:28] Whitney Webb: Yeah, totally. So anyway, there's like several founding members and this program has obviously had several iterations, but it's a, it's honestly a very secretive program. And the longer it's gone, the more time has gone on since it was first seemingly launched in 2022, the more, um, obfuscating they've become about the details. around it. And so the only program description that's really available of it anymore is on the, you know, of the nuts and bolts of what this program is supposed to be, is on the Wayback Machine, you know, the Internet Archive. But the program is still on, you know, and if you look at the website for the program now, it's just a countdown to Miami Climate Week, which is at the end of this month now, this April now, pretty much.

[13:00] Marty Bent: Yeah, a couple things here. Highly skeptical. I mean, I don't know, maybe the technology has advanced to a point where you can actually surveil carbon emissions from space, but it's like, how are they even calculating this? Like, how could you measure this from a satellite. Maybe I'm completely speaking out of my depth here and the technology does exist, but I find it, um, very hard to believe that you can accurately measure all these emissions from a satellite. And then 2, Whitney, it's not surveillance, it's observation. It's just Earth observation. They're just observing the Earth and issuing these credits. Okay, let's get the language right. It's not surveillance. We're just observing here.

[13:38] Mark Goodwin: Observation is preservation. Okay, that is a phrase of Satellogic, this company. Yeah, it's simply observation. There's no surveillance here at all. Oh, to comment on the first part in regards to like the technology, yeah, I actually think the technology unfortunately is there, and it's there for, you know, this is obviously a private company, Satellogic. We can get into some of the background of it, but I mean, right there on the board, right, we have General Joseph Dunford, um, uh, you know, who's partnered with Steve Mnuchin and with Liberty Strategic Capital, which is one of the, the funders and founders of Satellogic. But there's a lot of government, uh, and intelligence ties, um, uh, and, and, uh, you know, American infrastructure ties with the Caterpillar Company, um, just like right here all on the board of Satellogic.

[16:58] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[16:59] Mark Goodwin: So it's kind of done under this economic scale and pitched as this, basically the market is asking for this. When in reality, you look at the people that are behind it and what are the means behind this expansion into space, as Whitney said, Palantir in space essentially. And I would say there's certainly much more nefarious intentions behind this group. And we can get a lot more into it for sure, but that's a little primer on Satillogic there. Yeah.

[17:33] Marty Bent: After reading the piece and discussing the subject with you two in chat, it seems like this is the next— I mean, we talked about this with Ian and even before that, but it's like the next iteration of junk bonds, part 2. They're just going further. Yeah, as soon as one thing fails, they're on to the next thing, and this is the next thing. And there's a lot of people that have historically been involved with these synthetic markets that Wall Street spins up to, to get some yield out of the greater public, uh, and this is simply the next iteration to that with a sci-fi twist to it.

[18:13] Whitney Webb: Yeah, I mean, literally the junk bond predators from the '80s are the people financing this. now and like involved in it. It's very crazy. And actually the person that created carbon trading essentially is this guy named Richard Sander, who is also credited with being the father of financial futures, credited with essentially creating the collateralized mortgage obligation. He was a senior vice president at Drexel Burnham Lambert in the 1980s, made millions upon millions of dollars during the junk bond palooza over there that caused that bank to collapse. Then he was contracted basically by the Bush administration, Bush Senior, to develop an offset trading scheme for Bush Senior's EPA for sulfur dioxide emissions, I believe.

[20:17] Mark Goodwin: The GFRN.

[26:34] Mark Goodwin: Yeah.

[26:35] Whitney Webb: And it's creating a new market for all of this stuff that they can just like, you know, essentially looking for new ways to enable them to continue their extreme fiscal irresponsibility at both— in both the private sector and the public sector and allow them to steal everyone's money and wealth.

[26:50] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, I think Craig— Craig Cogut and, and, uh, and, uh, Milken are— it's a really good example of this private-public partnership cabal thing because, you know, what was the thing, you know, everyone is cheering for Trump to, uh, you know, to pardon pardon Assange on his last days in office. And, and who does he decide to pardon? Michael fucking Milken, uh, who is an absolute— I think Whitney called him a literal ghoul, uh, on, on Twitter the other day, which is absolutely true. A total ghoul. And, and so Craig Kogut was, was like, I believe, the lawyer, um, for the, the junk bonds department basically, and, and for Milken kind of doing this, this huge, um, fraud.

[34:15] Marty Bent: Coincidentally enough, Steve Mnuchin and his private equity arm just took over New York Community Bancorp as well. So building on what Brian Brooks did and everything going on with Satalogic, that's a very timely and strategic acquisition. For Mnuchin specifically.

[34:37] Whitney Webb: Well, those guys specifically, Steve Mnuchin and then Dunford came on to that firm. And it's also Trump's ambassador to Israel, David Friedman, and some other people that were under Mnuchin at the Treasury Department that make up that Mnuchin-led VC firm that we're talking about here. Their first investment when they launched was in this company that I wrote about, I guess, 4 years ago now. Called Cyber Reason. And the reason I'd written about them is because they were gaming out the use of cyber attacks to— it was a foreign company, Israeli company gaming this out with the US DHS, the Secret Service, and other parts of US law enforcement, including local police departments.

[38:12] Mark Goodwin: And who was the DA in California that should have prosecuted Mnuchin but didn't? Kamala Harris, of course. Also, I just want to say SoftBank's SBLA Advisor Corps, uh, was the lead investor of the PIPE offering of $100 million for the Satellogic, um, SPAC with Cantor. And JP Morgan, of course, served as the exclusive financial advisor to Satellogic. So just to wrap up some of those names in there.

[38:39] Marty Bent: Whitney, I think what you just said about Mnuchin's time as Treasury Secretary is very important because again, this whole concept of a public-private partnership and the facade, the mirage that there is actually anything separating the private and the public sector these days is very important for people to understand and really internalize. is that they've— they're the WEF, whoever it may be. They're trying to put us in this frame where it's like, hey, we have the private sector and the public sector and we need them to cooperate, when in reality they're more merged than ever before. You have these— they're the same doors. Yeah, they are the same exact thing. They're trying—

[39:21] Whitney Webb: Different hands of the same person, and they're demonizing one hand to send people into the other hand. hand, and this is what they always do, and you have to realize that both hands are bad. Don't go in either hand.

[39:35] Marty Bent: You have to reject their frame. Don't go in either hand. The frame is between the space between the hands, and they're just getting ping-ponged back and forth. And Mark, I won't speak for you, but I'll speak for myself. This is why I'm in Bitcoin, is because at the core of this public-private partnership is the ability to print money out of thin air and throw between the hands. And so whether it's the emergence of junk bonds, we mentioned Pegasus connection to Apollo. I mean, that was a big thing in September of 2019 when you had that overnight repo spasm.

[40:12] Whitney Webb: Totally.

[40:13] Marty Bent: Many people don't know this, but the Fed created new facilities that allowed hedge funds to get access to the Fed window. And then with Mnuchin's very irresponsible fiscal policy and the expansion of the debt since 2020, the Fed and the Treasury have been put in a position where they essentially are merged at this point. There really is no difference between the two. They have accounts with each other and they're sort of just sloshing funds between each other. They are essentially merged. And so there is no private-public separation. So this idea of a private-public partnership all bullshit. It's all the same thing.

[40:51] Mark Goodwin: Especially after the dissolving of certain legislation that prevented banks becoming investment firms and these really big interstate entities. I mean, in '33 under FDR, we had Glass-Steagall be put in, which basically prevented banks from certain types of investments.

[41:20] Marty Bent: Commingling commercial deposits with insurance products, particularly.

[41:25] Mark Goodwin: Totally. Yes, exactly. Exactly. And then, of course, what did we see? We saw in the mid-'90s, we saw Greenspan, who later went on to run the Fed, we saw him put out a pamphlet while at JP Morgan that was Rethinking Glass-Steagall. We saw Larry Summers help help dissolve this, who kind of very infamously kind of jumped back and forth between some of these private and public things, as well as universities with Harvard as well. And so we saw kind of this push of back and forth, this ping-ponging of when there was an advantage to be within the public sector, these people are in the public sector.

[48:06] Marty Bent: Quick break here, freaks. This rip is brought to you by Gradually, Then Suddenly: A Framework for Understanding Bitcoin as Money by Parker Lewis. I wrote the foreword to the book. I'm honored to have done so because it's the best zero-to-one primer if you're looking for a logical explanation of why Bitcoin obsoletes all other money. Buy one for yourself and maybe a few for your friends. com/gradually. com/gradually. Use the promo code TFTC for $5 off at checkout. Buy it now, freaks. The price of Bitcoin is going up. up. You need to understand it. This is the best zero-to-one primer. Back to the show. Do you really think people are falling for it?

[50:37] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, totally. I think before getting into the, maybe the blockchain aspect of it, I think just zooming out one more layer just to like green bonds, and we're starting to see these kind of like cleverly authored green bonds that aren't using blockchains yet, But essentially, you know, what a bond is, is, you know, you're buying up debt and you're getting a yield, you know, through this maturity over time, right? So, you know, say you buy a 10-year bond, you know, in the 8th year, you know, you're getting a 1% coupon, you're getting 1% on your clause. You could write this bond that says in year 8, 9, and 10, if you haven't reduced your greenhouse gas CO2 emissions, by 50% compared to where you were 8 years ago, instead of paying out 1%, it pays out 0%.

[57:34] Marty Bent: Yeah. To semantics here, RSK is merge-mined with Bitcoin, just so audience who's coming to this and may not be fully immersed in Bitcoin like we are, Mark.

[57:48] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, sure.

[57:49] Marty Bent: It is not technically at the protocol level. So this merge-mine sidechain, this peg sidechain, federated peg, essentially anchors into the Bitcoin protocol and then has this EVM that operates separate to the Bitcoin protocol, but it does anchor in to get the benefits of Bitcoin's finality, settlement, robustness, resiliency, yada, yada, yada. So there is like a degree of separation from Bitcoin, the core protocol, but it's anchoring into that. And that's my biggest curiosity And again, I told you guys this in chat, but I'm really interested to see if they can successfully do this because when it comes to the smart contracts, the virtual machine, I mean, historically Solidity has been a very unstable and insecure scripting language.

[59:35] Whitney Webb: Yeah. So there's this whole thing going on in carbon markets right now because everyone involved has been outed for being— well, Well, not everyone involved, but basically the whole market up until now has basically been outed as being very like grift-prone, you know, lots of fraud, lots of negligence, etc., etc. So the way they've been planning to get around this, and this is reflected in the Green Plus program, is through parametric insurance, like insuring carbon credits so that if the fraud and negligence continues to occur, which it will, it's now insured. And now the insurance market has a new market.

[1:00:11] Mark Goodwin: Right.

[1:00:12] Whitney Webb: for products.

[1:00:12] Marty Bent: Holy shit.

[1:00:13] Whitney Webb: Right. So there's no need to correct or to end the rampant fraud in carbon credits. They're just going to add like a new layer of insurance products now. Yeah. And there's like all the big insurance companies are getting in on this. And then there's new companies that are coming out of nowhere that are specifically specializing in carbon credit insurance. And then there's the other thing too, that you have some of these entities involved basically looking to urge the planet, like the Global Footprint Network through the Club of Rome stuff. You know, there's very prominent Club of Rome figures that for a long time have talked about, uh, if we can't depopulate peacefully, we will need to implement a benevolent smart dictatorship.

[1:02:55] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[1:02:55] Whitney Webb: Sorry, but it's true because these people are incompetent at times and they're trying to launch stuff, I think, before they really have these systems ready to go in the way they want them to be.

[1:03:08] Mark Goodwin: Yeah.

[1:04:19] Mark Goodwin: Yeah.

[1:04:20] Whitney Webb: I mean, it's basically like digitizing that system, developing it at scale. And it's a way for, you know, the crony capitalists, these oligarchs. I mean, there's so many different ways to talk about them. But, you know, essentially they're the people at the top of the 1% that engage in blatant financial criminal activities to steal from people beneath them. Right. And so they want to create— deepen the divide between the haves and the have-nots. And they want to basically make like digital barriers to maintain that. And AI is part of that. And, you know, these systems, this whole idea of like carbon offsets and the carbon market in general, you know, most people aren't going to be able to afford all the offsets that the elite are going to be able to afford.

[1:06:18] Marty Bent: Well, he benefits massively from it.

[1:06:19] Whitney Webb: And of course he's— well, sure. And he's— but he's framed himself as being sort of this like libertarian free speech hero after, you know, his acquisition of X, which, you know, again, he's been been fairly open about his goal is to turn X into WeChat USA and make it half of the financial system, I guess, to start. But beyond that, you know, the idea is to also have, you know, carbon emissions, carbon taxes, you know, intimately inter— interfaced with this coming digital ID, digital wallet paradigm. And there's a lot of different efforts to create those systems. But it's not just going to be one system.

[1:07:47] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[1:16:47] Marty Bent: Cool.

[1:20:41] Mark Goodwin: No, it's amazing. I think the way you talk about just sort of this establishment of, you know, commodity-backed stablecoins and money, it gets back to this idea of kind of what Marty was saying earlier. Well, there's still the oracle problem. There's still all these issues of making a federated sidechain work. Well, then you look at, well, where did the money go? You know, a lot of this research came from looking at VCs and looking at where the money came that funded and founded these companies. And you look at, you talked about X, a lot of people forget Elon was heavily involved in PayPal, and X was initially an idea that came out of the PayPal primordial goop.

[1:22:49] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[1:22:51] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, exactly. And so you're, you're seeing, you know, okay, PayPal is all over this thing. Bill Elkes connected directly with Epstein. Uh, you know, Howie Lutnick, the guy that holds all the treasuries for Tether, uh, purchased, uh, an estate, um, you know, from Comet Trust connected to Guido Goldman, um, connected directly, uh, you know, a neighboring estate to Epstein's house. I believe he bought 11 71st Street, East 71st Street, and Epstein was 9 East 71st Street. And then you look into PayPal and you see, okay, well, who's kind of doing the digital infrastructure for the blockchain of, you know, entity basically of PayPal? Who's allowing all these things to happen?

[1:25:36] Marty Bent: To Rothschild.

[1:25:39] Mark Goodwin: Correct me, Whitney.

[1:25:40] Marty Bent: Yes.

[1:25:41] Mark Goodwin: Exactly. Yes, to Bill Clinton in the White House about how they discussed currency stabilization and Jeffrey Epstein. Epstein was heavily considered to be really into forex trading. And that was kind of his passion in a lot of ways. And how do you get a leg up on all of these things is you get extensive amounts of data and then you create infrastructures that allow you to do trades and move large amounts of liquidity and settle large amounts of liquidity within the realm that you acquire all this data for. So you're beginning to see these are the same people that were heavily connected not just to intelligence, but basically the mafia that controls intelligence.

[1:31:11] Marty Bent: It is. But I would push back and say, I don't think these sidechains have gotten anywhere near the degree of adoption that the likes of Blockstream or RSK for that matter would like. Blockstream's been pushing Liquid for 6 years now, and you can look at the block explorer. They have 1 transaction per block, and it's the Coinbase transaction. I think it's good to see that there's— I don't know if it's a natural aversion or just nobody's picking up what they're putting down, In terms of the Bitcoiners that I know and the companies that we invest in, none of them are incorporating Liquid or any of these sidechains, because it's like, yeah, that's boring. It's not really enabling the sovereign future that we're going after here. But I mean, it certainly is the case.

[1:31:59] Mark Goodwin: Totally agree. Sorry. I totally agree, because right now we're seeing all of these ID systems and dollar stablecoins be on like Ethereum or Solana, right? Or whatever these bullshit sidechains, or not sidechains, but like altchains. But what happens when the public-private gang teams up and they go, hey, Ethereum is a security, Solana is a security, you need to use Bitcoin because it's the only digital asset that's not a security. And then all of that movement gets pushed onto Bitcoin and then all of a sudden Liquid is an an integral pillar of basically these systems, because they no longer can be upheld on Ethereum or on these other things.

[1:36:06] Marty Bent: Yeah. I wish them luck. Actually, I don't wish them luck, but—

[1:36:12] Mark Goodwin: Yeah.

[1:37:35] Whitney Webb: Yeah. I mean, I think the cornerstone of the response really does need to be self-reliance because if you're hoping on people in the private sector solving this problem for you because they don't like ESG, I don't think that's enough at all. And talking about this public-private play, it's important to keep in mind that what happens— I mean, just look at this, the Treasury Secretary office alone. So like in Clinton, it was Robert Rubin, Goldman Sachs. He helps repeal Glass-Steagall. And then when that whole bubble pops in 2008, Goldman Sachs' Henry Paulson is set Treasury Secretary. Then it's Tim Geithner, who worked under Larry Summers and Robert Rubin, is Treasury Secretary under Obama.

[1:38:49] Mark Goodwin: Right.

[1:42:46] Marty Bent: Oh, really?

[1:42:46] Whitney Webb: Oh, yes. And he says the exact same thing Larry Fink says. It's yeah, it's not a currency. It's you know a technology for asset storage. There's there's another very prominent Bitcoiner that likes to run with that line.

[1:43:01] Marty Bent: So yeah, so Michael Saylor is basically it's property. It's not it's not currency.

[1:43:08] Whitney Webb: Yeah, yeah, funny that didn't the chief of staff of In-Q-Tel come from Microsoft?

[1:43:13] Mark Goodwin: That's interesting. Anyway, um, sure did.

[1:43:17] Whitney Webb: Yep. So, um, anyway, basically, if Bitcoin is kept in that box that people like Larry Fink and Jeffrey Epstein and people like them— Larry Summers, presumably, who was on the Zappos advisory board— um, you know, these guys want Bitcoin to be a specific thing because they can use it. And there's people in the space like this RSK guy saying Bitcoin needs to lose its revolutionary ethos. It's got to drop that and become a tool for Wall Street. I think it's pretty obvious what needs to be done to scuttle those plans, which would be ensure the opposite.

[1:43:57] Marty Bent: Yes.

[1:43:58] Whitney Webb: Yes.

[1:43:59] Marty Bent: Yes. Use open source software.

[1:44:01] Whitney Webb: Yes. So people need to be putting resources into making that Try my best here, Whitney.

[1:44:07] Marty Bent: I'm trying my best.

[1:44:08] Whitney Webb: Well, sure. But basically, to recap on that, if they need the Bitcoin blockchain for asset storage, and presumably if we're right about what's going on in this article, which we seem to be, carbon markets, they need that blockchain. How do we make— invert their plans and use the Bitcoin blockchain so that it's the tool of financial freedom it was heralded to be because they can't get rid of it without scuttling their own plans.

[1:44:39] Marty Bent: No.

[1:44:40] Whitney Webb: Right? So how do we—

[1:44:42] Marty Bent: Bitcoin is money. It's not digital property.

[1:44:45] Whitney Webb: Use it.

[1:44:45] Marty Bent: It is digital property, but it is money. And it's hard within Bitcoin. There's a lot of hero worship these days. A lot of people get a lot of pushback for pushing back against the heroes.

[1:44:56] Whitney Webb: Yes. Well, it's not just Bitcoin. I mean, it's everywhere. Yeah. And pretty much most of the heroes are bitches for bankers, whether it's in Bitcoin or in politics. I'm sorry, but it's—

[1:45:08] Marty Bent: No, Mark, but I'm sure you've observed this.

[1:45:11] Mark Goodwin: Trump is not here to save you. QAnon, while a very fun time, we all had a great time looking at it. It was an Operation Trust. It was, hey, our guy's in there. Don't worry about it. We got it. And now here we are, and they locked down the country, they printed trillions of dollars, uh, they pushed Big Pharma products. I mean, uh, you know, none of these people are, are going to jail. Like, uh, no. So, um, I think we— I think Whitney really nailed it, uh, with this inversion thing. And I know it's very controversial within Bitcoin itself, but I think if we kind of use Bitcoin, uh, as a mechanism, uh, to store things as well, Again, it is a database.

[1:50:11] Marty Bent: Zappo acquired by Coinbase holds all the ETF Bitcoin.

[1:50:16] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, the custody. Yes, exactly. That the custody solution that Zappo, you know, yeah, they were. I think they literally. literally marketed themselves as the Fort Knox of Bitcoin, I think, which is kind of an interesting analogy to choose. Yes. And the Titanic of ships. What actually happened at Fort Knox here?

[1:50:39] Marty Bent: White pill. White pill. Don't want to be too optimistic, and we should certainly be aware and fighting against all this stuff. But I am incredibly encouraged by all the innovation that's happening, particularly with Chaumian mints, whether that's on the Cashew protocol or the Fedimint protocol. It is obviously— it does come with some custody trade-offs, but I think the privacy benefits and the fact that you can build these modular DLC stability pools within Chaumian eCash systems that give you the same functionality of the centrally controlled stablecoins. Yeah. coins is very promising. I mean, we're doing everything we can at 1031 to back the companies pushing the industry in this particular direction.

[1:52:12] Whitney Webb: Yeah, well, I think it's important to say too that I think, um, there's a lot of people in the Bitcoin media space that will never talk about this or what you just mentioned. And I think a lot of that is because a lot of money and effort has been put into specifically homogenizing, uh, media discourse in the Bitcoin space because they want them They want Bitcoiners as much as possible to be compliant while Larry Fink and his ilk do what they want with Bitcoin and make it what they want it to be so that people are content with number go up and sort of the Saylor-esque talking points that have gotten a lot of, you know, a lot of people have heard those versus what you just mentioned from examples.

[1:54:11] Marty Bent: Imagine the glory.

[1:54:12] Mark Goodwin: Compliance is not defiance, I think, as the Bitcoin Bugle Boys Like say compliance. They say compliance is defiance, which obviously is making fun of this stuff. And I totally agree, Whitney. And you know, I think it was very said very clearly in the sailor keynote from Pack Bitcoin 2022. Literally, as you know, FTX was collapsing around us. You know, literally, you know, our phones are blowing up. All this crazy shit's happening November 2022. Sailors on stage saying, "Don't be a martyr." Don't fight the system. Uh, stablecoins on Lightning is a $10 trillion industry. Um, you know, let's, let's go, let's bring it on. You know, we're all gonna get rich. Um, don't be a martyr.

[1:54:55] Whitney Webb: Bend over for Larry.

[1:54:56] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Bite the pillow. Uh, they're going in raw. I don't want this to be like calling for people to, to go, to go be a martyr. Like, I'm not saying go set yourself on fire in front of, you know, the BlackRock headquarters. That's— I'm not— that's not helpful either. It's not productive at all. Um, plus the emissions, the carbon emissions from burning yourself, I think, you know, uh, it's very bad. I wouldn't— I would hate to see—

[1:55:26] Marty Bent: you're gonna get it. You're gonna get an estate tax ding on top.

[1:55:29] Whitney Webb: Yeah, your family will be taxed for that. Yeah, yeah.

[1:55:34] Mark Goodwin: And imagine the glory.

[1:55:35] Marty Bent: I owe Satellodges Yeah, imagine the glory. I think we can—

[1:55:41] Mark Goodwin: But there has to be things we have to do.

[1:55:42] Marty Bent: Yes, but then the, the path that we're describing here is a harder path to take. It's gonna take longer, it's gonna take a lot more effort, it's gonna take a lot more education and new learnings from individuals to actually interact with this compared to an ETF where you don't interact with TD Ameritrade or whoever, and you just click a button, and that's your interaction with Bitcoin. That's not the future we want. We want to actually interact with the protocol and the layers built on top of it, and actually hold and use Bitcoin correctly. And I want to paint the picture of a glorious victory where we successfully do that. And if we can build out the tools and make Bitcoin as useful and provide the market with fundamental utility that gives people agency over their money, Bitcoin will number will go up naturally from that, that path as well. It's just going to be longer and harder, but I promise you—

[1:56:39] Whitney Webb: Yeah, but it doesn't involve everyone's financial enslavement, and it doesn't enable the fiscal irresponsibility of the commercial and central banks to you to, to dump all the irresponsible, like, debt generated by their money printing into, like, Bitcoin and be like, oh, problem solved, keep printing Forever. I mean, that's basically what they want to do. It's insane. It is. And there's people that are like, "That's fine because now I have money." And it's like, yeah. So you remember why you got into this? And like, you know, I don't know. Yeah. It's just let's go back.

[1:57:12] Mark Goodwin: Yeah. People get on us. You know, I'm I'm still new at you know some of this stuff, and you know I still read comments and whatever, and and I see people say stuff you know where they're like, well, you don't. offer any solutions. You're just blackpilled. You're like doom shilling. And it's like, I'm actually like a really upbeat, optimistic guy. Like, I think we're gonna win. I think we have a lot of work ahead of us and we have an incredibly ghoulish apparatus that we need to fight. Um, but I really, you know, I'm a monomyth guy. I believe in the, you know, our history is fake and, uh, but the stories are real.

[2:01:02] Marty Bent: Well, discourse, and I'm very happy you said the R word because that's talk about language control. That's one word revolution that some Bitcoiners like don't say it, don't say it. Like we don't want the state to think that we're pushing up against them. It's like no, we need a revolution. Look around you. Look at what's going on. Look at this carbon credit program. They're literally. We're going to be sending satellites in the sky to send data to smart contracts that dictate whether or not you can spend money at the grocery store next month. It is time for a revolution. The revolution does not need to be bloody, I don't think. Like you just said, Mark, I think we have the ability to leverage the same tools that they do in a different way to have a successful revolution against this impending fucking hellscape that they're trying to push on us. And you can't be afraid of that word. I can't be scared. Go ahead, Whitney.

[2:01:50] Whitney Webb: I just want to chime in really quick. So part of what we're talking about here, part of the way to defeat this apparatus that Mark— as Mark referred to it, so much of what they do, including their media ops in efforts to control discourse, but also just getting people to onboard to stuff when they otherwise wouldn't, it all runs on fear, right? And all the stuff that happened during COVID people fell in line because of fear. It's all fear-based, pretty much everything they do. A great way to not fall into that is not be afraid of these people, no matter what psyop they throw at you.

[2:02:59] Mark Goodwin: Yeah.

[2:03:00] Whitney Webb: And if you unplug a little bit and spend more time in, like, the actual world, you are much less likely to feel that way. And I think that's why during COVID they wanted so much of our discourse to be be online. And then they took even greater control of the online discourse. And we know now, under the guise of election censorship, they're going to clamp down even more on online discourse and lead it in very particular directions. They want Americans in particular to be at each other's throats, you know, textbook divide and conquer. Among other things though, I mean, they have this whole war on domestic terror apparatus, all this stuff about civil war and we need this and that.

[2:04:18] Marty Bent: Well, in in terms of like this, like in two points, what you said earlier, election year, fear-based divide and conquer is being employed. If you're not for Biden, you should be for Trump. If you're not for Trump, you should be for Biden.

[2:04:34] Whitney Webb: Bullshit. They do this every 4 years. How have people not figured it out?

[2:04:37] Marty Bent: And we have— we have an example this week. Nothing matters because the FISA reauthorization and the expansion of FISA this week— you have a Republican-controlled House, you have a Democrat president, and they're both like, yeah, we're gonna surveil you more.

[2:04:57] Whitney Webb: Same shit, different rhetoric. Only difference, I mean, It's a rhetorical difference that's ultimately meaningless.

[2:05:03] Marty Bent: And on the line of pushing all the discourse digital, what they just expanded FISA to be able to do is going to be able to give the government the ability to granularly target people that are exhibiting speech that they don't like. They just got the ability to literally tell coffee shops, you need to give us all your Wi-Fi traffic data so that we can surveil everybody. FISA, which was originally supposed to be targeted towards foreigners.

[2:05:29] Whitney Webb: Terrorists.

[2:05:31] Marty Bent: Yeah, terrorists. Now it's really—

[2:05:33] Whitney Webb: Yeah, well—

[2:05:34] Marty Bent: The government just told your coffee shop they had to give the government your email address.

[2:05:37] Whitney Webb: What Palantir originally was— so Palantir was originally Total Information Awareness, and then they tried to rename it Terrorist Information Awareness, but Total Information Awareness is what they always wanted, and that's surveilling everyone. For everything. And it's surveilling people at the biological level, like the to-stop-pandemics-before-they-start narrative. That was part of it. It was also about financial surveillance. It was surveilling what you buy at the grocery store. That is literally what they are doing again. But it's a mix of public entities and private entities that are all in these— involved in these opaque partnerships. So it's not one clear clearly defined program at DARPA like it was originally supposed to be.

[2:07:00] Marty Bent: Yeah. Period.

[2:07:03] Mark Goodwin: And what's that Trevor Moore, that Trevor Moore tweet where he's like, hey, what if, you know, all these spooks discovered, you know, through the MKUltra program that you can control, uh, humans through fear-based tactics. And now they simulate, uh, you know, events, uh, in the public to instill fear, to like control the masses, you know, hahaha. And then, you know, of course he died, you know, a month later or whatever. But I think that idea of, uh, you know, fear-based control, it's something that we've seen. Um, you know, there's this great Baudrillard book, um, Simacron and Simulation, that, you know, talks about this idea of, you know, if you are a person in a bodega and someone comes in to rob the place and you— this fear is instilled in you because someone comes in with a gun and holds it up at the person and goes to rob the register and you're fearful for your life.

[2:09:48] Whitney Webb: Peter Thiel funds it.

[2:09:49] Mark Goodwin: Peter Thiel funds it from Palantir. It's the same people that were fearful. What are we afraid of Google? Oh, because they have all our data and they run everything and, and, you know, they're not so great. Well, Palantir is better. Cantor Fitzgerald is better. Why is Peter Thiel better than Susan, you know, YouTube? Why is that any better? You know, it's, it's this total false dichotomy, and we fall hook, line, and sinker for it because we have these Pied Pipers that are literally paid paid, uh, you know, to lead us there. Um, you can see that on X so, so like obviously with, you know, the people paid by, by Elon to, to post on there. You know, this idea that X is the public square is just so ridiculous. You know, now they're gonna start charging for posts.

[2:10:35] Marty Bent: The amount of murder videos I've been fed and like fights at schools that I've been fed. And another thing, it's getting so egregious, like around the totality solar eclipse, like the amount of content that was just being flooded with, oh my gosh, the world's going to end after this, there's going to be earthquakes, like they're going to cyberattack. Like, it's—

[2:10:52] Whitney Webb: They want people scared as fuck all the time. That's what they're doing. Yep, yep.

[2:10:57] Marty Bent: And I, I almost fell for it over the weekend with the Iran bombing Israel. I was like, oh shit, World War III. Then I took a couple minutes, I was at a baseball game with my boys and my wife, and I was like, you know what, this is definitely something being manipulated here. All wars are banker wars, and both sides are being played in this.

[2:11:17] Mark Goodwin: Iran totally wasn't couped by the CIA. You know, it's totally not a world empire. You know, all of these conflicts are real. Russia and Ukraine didn't have the exact same COVID policies. You know, it's just lunacy that we understand so much about what's happening, You know, zoomed out. And then when we get locked into these little, you know, I'm on Team A, I'm on Team B, it's like, well, fuck that guy. You know, he's wearing the wrong color on his shirt. Uh, you know, I'm a Red Sox fan, he's a Yankees fan, like, fuck that guy. It's like, no, we're all being controlled. Uh, you know, let's, let's, let's get together here. Even sometimes I think with, you know, some of the dissonance that I think was, was ultimately generally correct.

[2:12:02] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[2:12:03] Mark Goodwin: Like with COVID um, you know, obviously it was, it was a pretty wild time, um, to be looking around looking for any signal anywhere. Um, but, you know, so much of COVID dissonance was, you know, absurd things about vaccines and all this stuff. And I'm not, I'm no vaccine fan. I wouldn't do it. I'm not vaccinated. But, you know, a lot of the discourse was very controlled and very insane. And it's graphene and nanotechnology.

[2:12:26] Marty Bent: Like, all you don't have a 5G antenna in you? Good job.

[2:12:28] Mark Goodwin: No, not yet. Not yet. Not yet. But, and I don't know ultimately, right? Like, I'm not sure. I'm just a guy with internet access for the moment. But, you know, so much of the discourse was controlled so quickly to divide each other and to distract from— no one talks about the lockdowns. No one talks about, you know, printing trillions of dollars. Like, it's, it's all about the vaccines and are you on this side or this side, and it became this politicized thing.

[2:12:54] Marty Bent: Yeah.

[2:12:55] Mark Goodwin: That was literally inverted in front of our eyes, where Kamala is saying, I'm not taking the vaccine because it's Trump's vaccine, to 6 months later, you know, I'm getting yelled at and being called a Trumper because I'm not vaccinated. And it's like, well, what the fuck? He's the vaccine guy. Like, what? Like, did no one just see this phase shift happen in real life? Am I going crazy? Like, what happened?

[2:13:15] Marty Bent: Excuse me, you're not a Trumper. You're a murdering Trumper. Okay, you're murdering your grandmother.

[2:13:21] Mark Goodwin: Exactly. And it's just, it's, it's, it's so wild. And, and, and I think even some of the smart people really fell for it. I mean, and it's really tough to stay up on psyops. I mean, it's very hard. But I think in general, when there's something that is trying to divide people to a dichotomy, the dichotomy is wrong. Like, like, the world is not black and white. It's very gray. And so whenever there's very clear black and white you know, tropes. That's a very, very big trope of some of these, you know, groups that control us, is false dichotomies of black and white. And just whenever you see that, you know, you should raise a little flag and be wary of that, in my opinion.

[2:14:00] Marty Bent: Agreed. Be aware, freaks. Be aware. Be the patriot you want to see in control. Don't depend on Q, okay? This has been great. 2 hours. Do you have anything we should leave the freaks with, Whitney? Any final thoughts?

[2:14:19] Whitney Webb: Yeah, don't let them— I don't know. I mean, there's so much stuff to say. I feel like I've already said it. Just, I guess, repeating, don't fall into the fear-based psyops. It's just maybe we should get offline a little bit more, everybody. And also, Please do not let Bitcoin become Larry Fink's little bitch. I mean, that's just embarrassing. Yeah. Please don't do it.

[2:14:46] Mark Goodwin: That's my second wrap up.

[2:14:50] Marty Bent: Plant a garden. Never go up amnesia is a good good phrase I'm gonna take from this one because it is hard. Take it, baby. Sitting there, your old Bitcoin numbers going up. You're like, oh shit! This this feels good. You have to fight that urge. It's a.

[2:15:03] Whitney Webb: Well, they want to try and buy people out and be like, oh, you wanted to be a revolutionary, did you? Well, here's, you know, 6 figures.

[2:15:11] Mark Goodwin: Yeah. How about a second saltwater pool? How about a hot tub, Mark? You know, it's like, how about you peel off a little Satoshi and get yourself something nice? You know, it's like, no, I don't give a fuck about that actually. Like, I'm, I got into this stuff, you know, totally not because I, I was never a thing about getting rich. And, you know, I want to use, you know, whatever funds I've been lucky to get to, you know, to do— to establish sustainable, which I know is a dirty word these days, but to just to create sustainable architecture that, you know, can really push back on these things.

[2:16:13] Marty Bent: Well, I know for certain I can give you 2, um, this is what I'm looking for. It's not closure. You can, uh, you can understand well that there's at least 4 or 5 teams working to build products that push us in the right direction here, right in Bitcoin Commons here in Austin. Educate yourself, freaks. Don't be afraid to speak up. That's been one of my goals, initiatives, I guess you can say, over the last 6 to 9 months particularly, is I repeat it. I'm sorry if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my God, Marty, I can't believe you're saying it again, but it cannot be understated.

[2:18:10] Whitney Webb: Yeah.

[2:18:13] Marty Bent: Whitney Mark.

[2:18:13] Whitney Webb: Well said. I thought that was very articulate, Marty.

[2:18:16] Marty Bent: I'm not known for— I can't pronounce words. Clip it, clip it, clip it. When can we expect part 2 to drop?

[2:18:25] Mark Goodwin: Oh, well, am I pushing timelines on you guys?

[2:18:30] Marty Bent: A month. Okay.

[2:18:32] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, uh, halving is a little crazy over here in Bitcoin Magazine world. But yeah, I'm hoping to get some good headway in it in the next week or two. Yeah, I'd say sometime in May.

[2:18:46] Marty Bent: All right, so we'll congregate again at some point in May to follow up.

[2:18:51] Whitney Webb: Sounds good.

[2:18:52] Marty Bent: I think not repetition, but to keep getting this message out there is important.

[2:18:58] Whitney Webb: Agreed. Well, thanks a lot, Marty.

[2:19:02] Marty Bent: Thank you, guys.

[2:19:03] Mark Goodwin: Yeah, thanks for having us.

[2:19:04] Marty Bent: Peace and love. D'key!