Erin Redwing: The ColdCard Hack Was Only the Beginning Transcript — TFTC Article: https://www.tftc.io/coldcard-hack-entropy-bug-bitcoin-erin-redwing Transcript page: https://www.tftc.io/coldcard-hack-entropy-bug-bitcoin-erin-redwing-transcript Published: 2026-09-30 Machine transcription, lightly cleaned; may contain errors. ======================================================================== [0:07] Marty Bent: You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. [0:09] Erin Redwing: Let me talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. [0:18] Marty Bent: I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. [0:29] Erin Redwing: I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. [0:31] Marty Bent: If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. [0:34] Erin Redwing: Probably should be. Probably should be. [0:36] Marty Bent: Aaron, I wish you weren't as dead on as you were when we last spoke. What was that? End of June, beginning of July. [0:45] Erin Redwing: A lot has happened. [0:46] Marty Bent: I'm shell-shocked, I think, is one way to explain the feeling in the air. I was just in DC at the BPI Summit. [0:54] Erin Redwing: Yeah, yeah. We've all witnessed man-made horrors beyond our comprehension over the last couple months. I feel like when we first met at the end of June, I was kind of trying to do my Paul Revere, like, something's coming, guys. Something's gonna happen. Just be aware. Just be aware. And then shit hit the fan basically immediately after we posted that episode. So we have to review it. We obviously have to go back and do a retrospective because— [1:25] Marty Bent: Well, where should we start? Let's start on the Bitcoin side. We'll get to the AI. Obviously Coldcard, that is, I think, the sort of bomb that went off first, and there's been a ton of lingering and expansive vulnerabilities discovered. Obviously we have Liquid, bunch of Lightning infrastructure getting attacked as well. And like I was saying, I was just in DC for BPI, and I was saying it a bit tongue-in-cheek, but there was a lot of developers. HRF has a hackathon going on today down there. So a lot of the developers were in DC, and I think shell shock is an apt description of how many people were feeling this week. It was good. to get a bunch of people in one spot and sort of let loose at a beefsteak and have some drinks at PubKey DC, but there were some war stories being told. [2:21] Erin Redwing: Yeah, I mean, I think at least from the astrological perspective— which, by the way, if you've clicked on this video not knowing that that's my perspective, that's my perspective, bear with me— the shell-shock kind of major tower-collapsing moments are Yeah. Gonna chill out for a little bit. Although I also would say it's becoming the new normal. I think that's part of it as well, is that we maybe weren't expecting that something like Coldcard could have had a vulnerability on the level that they had, and certainly not that it could have been exploited and found by something that would have taken a developer or a hacker hundreds of hours probably to find. [4:54] Marty Bent: Yeah. [4:54] Erin Redwing: At least from the astrological perspective, I think right now we're moving into an era where at least for the next 6 weeks, a couple months, it's good to just withdraw a little bit and kind of look back at the year and be like, wow, what the hell happened? Where was I in January 2026? What did I think was gonna happen this year? And what has actually happened this year? Because it's been really crazy, and I definitely think At least for me, July and August, I feel like I was on red alert for weeks on end, and I wasn't even a developer who had to deal with it. I was just watching in horror. I don't know, I assume you probably had a similar experience. [5:34] Marty Bent: That's the exact word I used when I was describing it, I think, a few days after the cold card stuff started. I think the only word I can use to describe this is horrifying. Yeah. And obviously there's a ton of introspection going on right now as it pertains to what happened over the last 2 months. But I think another conversation current that's undergirding what's happening behind the scenes too is a broader conversation of what stage of Bitcoin are we leaving and heading into? What priors do we need to check and really dig deep to think about what we're doing here for the long term. What did we get wrong culturally, for lack of a better term, leading up to the ColdCard hack? [6:47] Erin Redwing: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think there's so many thoughts on that. One thing is the weird silver lining of it being Coldcard that got got is that I think probably besides Bitcoin Core itself, Coldcard was maybe one of 3 or 4 companies that a hack like this could have happened to that would have activated the entire ecosystem to be like, oh, something's wrong. And you even still see it. There's a bit of a— if you think about the graybeards or the devs, the old guard, as you're talking about, where they're like, ah, the bug reports, it's not even a real bug. It's not a big deal. There's an ego to it, I think, of just trying to brush it off and be like, well, AI is not as good as they say it is, or I'm the best developer. I'm such a good cryptographer. There's no way this could happen to me. [7:43] Marty Bent: Yeah. [7:44] Erin Redwing: I feel like the fact that it was Coldcard and that it was an entropy bug at such a foundational level where it was such a bad bug, it was such a bad bug, I think that that really shook people and woke them up. Because what I've kind of noticed in Bitcoin over the last few years since I got more in the middle of the culture, since I have my podcast with Casey Rodarmor, I mean, highly controversial figure who was for a couple years at the center of a lot of conversations. One of the things that I realized was that Bitcoiners have this hubris when it comes to Bitcoin only. [11:13] Marty Bent: No, beyond that too, I think with AI, not even the technical aspect of it, I think even on the investment side of it sucked a lot of the winds out of Bitcoin. I think another thing Another humbling aspect of the last couple months is Bitcoin isn't a foregone conclusion, particularly on the investment side of it. It's competing for capital with a bunch of other things. And right now with the flashiest thing that humanity's ever seen with this AI emergence. And I think that is one other thing. It's like, okay, this isn't a foregone conclusion. Personally, with the introspection that I've been dealing with the last couple months has been like, okay, why are we here in the first place? [12:26] Erin Redwing: Yeah, absolutely. It's not enough to just repeat platitudes and just hope that they're true. I think that we all have kind of our different roles to play, and I think it's interesting to see Bitcoin started as this very nerd-dev type of thing, right? You had to be relatively technical to use Bitcoin before there were wallets. And I think there's a double-edged sword thing to Bitcoin adoption, which is that you lose some of the core of the movement as you make it more accessible and you kind of just say, number go up, number's gonna go up forever, guys. Don't you wanna get in? There can only be 21 million wholecoiners. [15:34] Marty Bent: Yeah. [16:49] Marty Bent: Yeah, you gotta actually do the work. I think, again, silver linings, whether it's red team or others. And I think it's given people confidence who maybe would have seen somebody like Rodolfo or even Blockstream for that matter, and like look to them for signaling of what should we work on and saying, actually, I don't need to do that. Like, let me step out here. , whatever. They're bringing like shielded transactions, Zcash-like shielded transactions to Bitcoin. It was Allok Init. Point being is you have a lot of people stepping up that— I don't know, I can't speak for them, but I would imagine maybe like, who am I to do this? [18:04] Erin Redwing: Yeah, yeah, no, exactly. I think it's empowered a lot of people who actually are very tapped into what's going on right now to just be confident in taking action and trying to do things rather than just deferring to the old guard, as you said. I've seen that in little ways in myself. I've seen that in a lot of other people, and I think that that's Yeah. We're still figuring out how to do a structureless, decentralized movement. This is something that any sort of anarchist movement throughout all of history comes up against. It's like, well, it's natural to seek leaders, it's natural to seek figureheads. And so, what does it look like when Bitcoin ends up being this thing that has to evolve through people coming together to make it happen voluntarily. [21:40] Marty Bent: Yeah. It's the canary in the coal mine. So, Freaks, this rip was brought to you by good friends at Square. Bitcoin at Block is creating a whole ecosystem of companies, Cash App, BitKey, and Square, to make Bitcoin everyday money. The way Square does that is by enabling eligible businesses to accept Bitcoin over Lightning. This is a superior way to do payments compared to incumbent payment processors. And if you're a Square merchant that enables Bitcoin payments, if you're an eligible Square merchant that does that, you're going to have 0% processing fees through 2026. Another benefit, there's no chargeback. There's no chargebacks. Think about what that means. [24:07] Marty Bent: You can access it for free at simplemining.io/tftc. That's simplemining.io/tftc. Once you lay it out like that, it's even more disconcerting because I think the pain tolerance that exists within many Bitcoiners is higher than the average. And if Bitcoin is the canary in the coal mine for everything that is to come outside of Bitcoin as it pertains to AI security breaches, I can only imagine what the normies, for lack of a better term, or how they're going to react when things accelerate. And I mean, Ties into, I mean, one of the other big topics that we discussed in June is parallel tracks with Bitcoin, AI, politics. And I mean, things certainly accelerate in the 2 other areas too with GPT-3, the Hugging Face hack. We have this effective altruism undercurrent that I know you went to— [25:10] Erin Redwing: Yeah, as an insider, I did my inside gonzo journalism on. [25:16] Marty Bent: And I guess just jumping to those parallel tracks, I mean, you're pretty dead on with those 2. Middle of July, Hugging Face, OpenAI became aware of the Hugging Face breach, and Kimmie K3 dropped right before Coldcard. Yeah. Sort of paired together there. [25:35] Erin Redwing: Yeah. I mean, for those who didn't watch my previous episode that we did in June, I basically was pointing out this set of dates in July where I was like, this is a big deal. Like, ding, ding, ding, guys. This is like, a pre-post-human civilization moment. And now retrospectively, I feel like it's the pre-post-AI moment. Like, you might have started to see the writing on the walls throughout the first half of 2026, but certainly by this point on the other side of July, like, it's impossible to deny that we're living in a new paradigm. And that doesn't mean, you know, there's certain aspects of like, if you just are living totally off the grid. [27:04] Marty Bent: Yeah. [27:05] Erin Redwing: But I pointed out those dates essentially just as like a pay attention kind of warning, or I try not to be too ominous about it, but just kind of being like, this is a high-intensity time. And July 20th specifically was like, if I had to pick a peak date, I think I said it was that day. And that day was when OpenAI internally discovered the Hugging Face hack, which they then disclosed the following day in an announcement. And so, For those who were not— I mean, I feel like so many people have heard of this story at this point. It was actually interesting 'cause when the story first came out, it's kind of like, oh, that's interesting. [28:20] Marty Bent: Yeah. [28:20] Erin Redwing: It's like there's something scary but also very cute about it to me. It does feel like something has emerged that is not something that they predicted would happen; it's not something that's an obvious result of the type of model training that they were doing. It's something else. And I don't know that we've really even started to wrap our heads around the implication of that, but I definitely am viewing that as a big moment. The other was the KIMI-K3 release, which happened I believe that was like July 25th, and then a few days later the Coldcard hack happened. And from everything I've heard, it seems like KIMI-K3 was probably the likely model used for that hack because KIMI-K3 did not have the guardrails that the frontier models have. And so you were able to find things like critical entropy bugs in open-source software, whereas OpenAI or Anthropic would say like, hey, sorry, I'm not allowed to look at that or tell you that. [29:15] Marty Bent: Yeah. [31:17] Marty Bent: Yeah. Well, I'm happy you brought that up because there are many parallels. Like the fearmongering is, is intense right now. I'm like talking about Hugging Face specifically. Like, yes, it was insane what happened, but there was an article— I've now mentioned it like 5 times in the last month, but I think it's really important to go read it. I wrote about it in the newsletter a couple of weeks ago. This guy at Lumenscape did a retrospective on the Hugging Face attack, and he found— he was like, well, the sandbox that was set up, like the guardrails, led the agents that were training in the model to believe that they had access to a synthetic internet, that it was not the real internet. [32:57] Erin Redwing: Yeah, that's a good point to make. It's also why I am sort of critical of the idea of AI alignment is to me, this is a neutral tool. There is no AI that has some inbuilt incentive to be aligned with humans. AI is a super powerful tool that if you prompt it in one direction or another, it's going to follow orders. And so I feel like that's something that, as I said, the effective altruists and the rationalists, they have been thinking about this for a while and they have their own takes on it, but the rest of us have to actually figure out what that means. [35:20] Marty Bent: Parallels to 2020 and COVID are very stark right now for me at least, because like diving into like Anthropic EA stuff, like I view them as like the Fauci, the Bill Gates, trying to get control. [35:35] Erin Redwing: Trust the science. [35:36] Marty Bent: Yeah. By using fearmonger. And this time it's like, trust us, we're the only people smart enough to do this. And that was a lot of the side conversations in DC this week were about Anthropic specifically and the infiltration of the effective altruists. And again, Bitcoin always is the first, not always the first, but a lot of times the first to encounter some, some of these weird ideas like SBF, FTX, that was steeped in effective altruism too. And now— [36:06] Erin Redwing: Good point. [36:06] Marty Bent: It's becoming more popular again. But again, we have the pattern recognition that we can look back to FTX and be like, well, these guys should not have control of any, any of these systems. And that's where I think we're at this point, critical point. Hugging Face, Dario going out there and saying like, we can't release the models, we need the big, the big slowdown. You had Elon, Dario, and Sam coming out simultaneously and saying, I agree, we should all slow down. But I think it's because they want control. They're trying to fearmonger to get the regulatory moats and the licensing regimes to ensure that they have omnipotent control over all of these things. [36:48] Erin Redwing: Yeah, I think it's an interesting world because And you're totally right, it's very similar to the trust the science Fauci people because I think that there are some people, especially at the top, who know that it's a tactic. They know that it's propaganda. They know that they are a company that's intending to IPO and that they have to do what's right for the profits of the company. There's some people who realize that. I think probably, this is just my vibe assessment, I feel like Sam Altman knows that. It seems like Sam Altman is sort of self-aware and kind of realizes that he has to say certain things in order to get certain outcomes and he knows— [37:26] Marty Bent: He'll blow with the wind, where Dario is a different animal, I think. [37:29] Erin Redwing: Yeah, exactly. I agree. So I think there's some people like Sam Altman who know what they're doing, and maybe they also believe that AI safety is a real issue or that open-source models will result in hacks. Certainly we noticed that in the Bitcoin ecosystem. That's part of what's so hard is that they're not wrong. It's not like what they're saying is totally wrong, just like the COVID people, but their prescription to that diagnosis is not necessarily the prescription that everyone should go with or that society should go with. So I think there's some people that are sort of self-aware in that EA rationalist movement. And then I think there's a lot of people who are completely bought into the cult. [39:05] Marty Bent: Yeah. [39:06] Erin Redwing: So these people are— and there's something to be said, if you look at someone like Bryan Johnson, he's also doing, don't die, right? There's something to be said for marketing in those sort of propaganda lines that you choose to use. So what I was kind of trying to figure out is, do these people literally mean it? Are they just saying it because they want to get attention? Are they kind of being smart in that sort of propaganda sense? Do they mean it? And if so, what's the path? And when I went to talk to these people, my understanding of what they think, how they come to the conclusion that AI literally kills everyone, which is the conclusion that they've come to— it's not a propaganda term, at least for the people I talked to— is that something that is super intelligent will necessarily come to the conclusion that humans are merely a waste of space, a waste of resources, and it'll essentially vaporize us to use our atoms for whatever process it needs. [40:13] Marty Bent: Right. [43:29] Marty Bent: Yeah. [43:30] Erin Redwing: It was honestly very anxiety-inducing for me, but I just felt like people needed to understand this is this mentality. I call it a cult, and I say that as someone who's interested in spiritual topics, right? I'm not saying that from the perspective of just you know, like, like saying, oh, whatever, they're just a cult. Like, don't listen to them. No, that they're forming a religious belief. They're forming religious beliefs around AI. And I'd like to see more people with religious and spiritual mindset try to tackle these, these questions because we have to fight it with something. [44:06] Marty Bent: You know who is? Peter Thiel. [44:09] Erin Redwing: Yes. So, yes, very true. [44:12] Marty Bent: I think we may have discussed this in June, but I went to 2 2 of his Antichrist lectures in Austin a year ago, 2 of the 4. [44:21] Erin Redwing: I don't know that we talked about this. [44:23] Marty Bent: Basically what he's been ringing the alarm for, for 2 years, 3 years maybe now, is the whole point of the— like, I've seen commentary on the lecture series from people outside and they're like, why is Peter Thiel like trying to manifest the Antichrist? And I think The Hoover Institute, I forget the guy's name, he did an interview with him. Go listen to that interview if you haven't. And if you can get to a lecture, I know it starts in Nashville, I believe next week. He's doing the lecture series over 4 weeks there. If you're in the area, I highly recommend you go to at least 1 or 2. [45:23] Erin Redwing: Mm-hmm. [45:24] Marty Bent: Um, and I, I believe the conclusion was the world's not going to end. What's going to be worse is if we get the Antichrist while everybody's distracted with Yeah, I mean, Peter Thiel— [45:35] Erin Redwing: that's like such a good point. Peter Thiel is like someone who's kind of witnessing this and then coming to his own conclusions. I actually brought him up when I was talking to these people because one of the things that I was trying to say is like, you know, if what you're saying is necessarily true, which is— this is how they operate, that they're like, this is what will happen, this is what will always happen when we develop superintelligence. What they're describing is a Kardashev-level civilization. There's this idea that— it's in astrobiology and alien lore that basically when a civilization becomes sufficiently intelligent, they learn how to harness all of the resources available to them on their planet, and then eventually their star system, so their Sun, outward, outward, and outward. And so we're at a Kardashev scale 0.5 or something. We're not at a 1 yet because we haven't harnessed all of the energy available to us on Earth. [46:29] Marty Bent: Right. [46:30] Erin Redwing: But essentially what they're describing when they say, oh, something super intelligent would realize we're just a waste of energy or waste of resources, is like something that's becoming a Kardashev Scale 1. And so if that's like the inevitable conclusion, then why don't we see it in the universe? And that's a Fermi paradox, right? [46:46] Marty Bent: Right. [49:27] Marty Bent: Yeah. No, it's funny you're talking about angels and demons too. Another strong thing that's emerged over the last 1 or 2 years is, at least here in the United States, and I know this anecdotally just in my own network, is people converting to Christianity and particularly Catholicism. And so You have this, particularly in Gen Z as well. And so you have this countervailing force of good, I strongly believe good, of people realizing, yeah, something weird's going on. I'm finding Jesus. And then you have this rationalist EA where it's like, we're not worth it. We're going to die. We need to control all of this. [50:11] Erin Redwing: Yeah. property that emerges in human consciousness. Like, I think, you know, we don't see any civilization throughout all of human history, except maybe you could argue like Soviet Union and the CCP, that is like a strictly non-religious civilization. You always have some sort of spiritual narrative that underpins a civilization. The Greeks had it, the Romans had it, we have it. And so I think when you try to move away from that, which we've done in the last couple decades, you just get a new religion emerging. And the thing that's frustrating to me about the religion that's emerged out of effective altruism is that they haven't even studied the ancient texts. [54:48] Marty Bent: All right, freaks. You know I don't take sponsor money from products I wouldn't use myself. So listen up. The Aave and Bitcoin Visa card is one of the most interesting things I've seen in the Bitcoin lending space in a long time. Here's the deal. 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So you sign up for CrowdHealth, you pay a monthly fee, you help out with other people's bills, and it's significantly cheaper Then health insurance, we were on COBRA as a family of 3 when I left my last job before I went full-time with TFTC. [57:13] Marty Bent: 2 things here. As you're saying that, I, I'm sure you've seen the green tax meme that's been going around, but Yeah, the effective altruism one? No, the one about the Age of Pisces and Jesus— [57:27] Erin Redwing: Oh, wait, that's so funny. [57:28] Marty Bent: Coming around. But it doesn't mention the Age of Pisces, but it says Jesus came around obviously 0 BC, and we've had 2,000 years of people writing about Jesus, and not only the man himself, but and God himself, but the teachings of Jesus. And so we have— and what is AI being trained on? As much textual data as possible. And it just so happens that the most text that's been written over the last 2,000 years has been about this man, Jesus Christ, with a moral framework through which to operate for humans. But now it's being trained, and there is data out there that if you post-train models on biblical verses, it does act in a way that which humans would deem moral. [58:39] Erin Redwing: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I mentioned this last time, I'm very into like, Graham Hancock, Ancient Civilization, all that kind of stuff. I mean, just speaking geologically, there was a great flood. Like, that did happen. I got my undergrad degree in geology, and then I went to planetary science and astronomy after that. And geologists, like, it's not controversial that there was like, biblical-level global floods, and you see that in every mythology, right? [59:06] Marty Bent: Yeah. [59:07] Erin Redwing: You see that like, Greeks talked about it, the Christians are talking about it, everyone's talking about the great flood that wiped things out that, you know, had major, major catastrophe. [59:17] Marty Bent: Killed millions. [1:01:04] Marty Bent: Yeah. Well, on the transition line, what's the rest of the year looking like? [1:01:11] Erin Redwing: It's more chill. I'll just say that just to kind of throw that out to help people chill out a little bit. So July and August were particularly active, Yeah. And when I say active, I mean accelerating events, new beginnings, really intense stuff that we've never seen before, that kind of stuff. That was July and August. Starting in September— we're now recording this at the end of September— starting in September through basically the rest of the year, things start to pick up again in December. We'll check in again, I'm sure, before 2027 to give the 2027 overview. But basically from now until the end of 2026, we're now in what's called retrograde season. [1:01:50] Marty Bent: Yeah. [1:05:06] Marty Bent: Yeah. That we even touched on BIP-110 too. I mean, you warned everybody. Oh my God. [1:05:11] Erin Redwing: I mean, those guys are still doing their thing, right? They have their own chain? [1:05:15] Marty Bent: Yeah. But that was a good— [1:05:17] Erin Redwing: I probably have some coins on that chain, right? [1:05:19] Marty Bent: Well, I think we all do. I don't know if there's replay protection yet, but that was another— I think retrospective lessons from that is it sucked a lot of mental bandwidth out of the room for something that proved to be complete brain damage to engage in, at least from my perspective. And I don't want to toot my own horn, but I made an explicit— I explicitly said, I'm going to address this once. I spent 2 days on it at Bitcoin++ in Austin last year, and I was like, I don't think I'm going to talk about this again. I think I maybe mentioned it twice on the show or in the newsletter right up until the actual fork. [1:06:20] Erin Redwing: Yeah, honestly, we're lucky that they did just fork off, you know what I mean? Because it did kind of just allow for that narrative to end. Because I think what was happening is that, you know, Like, I don't want to be like derisive, but it's like everyone could see that that was like a total mistake and crazy movement. Maybe it took a while for them to see it. Maybe they didn't know it was going to go as far as it did, whatever. I don't mean to like criticize people on their journey of figuring these sort of things out because I was on the Ordinals side because of Casey. [1:09:26] Marty Bent: And I can see the trap to fall back into those tendencies being laid now with Zcash pumping, people talking about real-world asset tokenization, stablecoins, and falling back into the trap of like, oh, it's all shitcoins. I agree, they are, but they are accumulating attention and capital for a reason because people want these features. And that's why I mentioned it earlier. It was very encouraging to see this morning that a paper dropped about bringing shielded transactions similar to Zcash to Bitcoin. It's like, okay, you can believe strongly as I do that these things do not makes sense from first principles and to some degree are scams, if they're pre-mined and have a dev fund or whatever, maybe not a scam, but aren't as pure as Bitcoin is probably the best way to say it, compete. [1:10:47] Erin Redwing: No, I mean, I think you're totally right. My definition of Bitcoin maximalism is I believe that the best features that come out of crypto will come to Bitcoin if they're truly wanted, that Bitcoin is not just the best just because it's ordained by our patron saint Satoshi, and so it is blessed and will always be blessed. It's like, It's the best because we have this ecosystem that can evolve and all of crypto is testnet. So don't be mad at testnet. You need testnet in order to try things out and see if things work. And then if any of it does work, and I agree with you, a lot of it is complete bullshit, but if any of it does work, we'll bring it back to Bitcoin. [1:12:53] Marty Bent: I'm incredibly optimistic. I think Retrospection's important. Introspection, excuse me, is important. Retrospection. Introspection is very important. And it's been a very contemplative couple of months for me personally. And I know, again, just being down in DC with a bunch of people this week, I think a lot of people are in the same boat. And again, there's a lot of PTSD, a lot of shell shock out there, but I think— Ultimately, people will come out of it, and I truly believe we'll come out of it stronger. It's just a matter of time. And to your point, banding together, not infighting and trying to rip each other down and rip each other apart, but it's like, hey, we were all wrong to one degree or another throughout all this. Maybe not everybody, but a lot of people were wrong, myself included. And let's not tear each other down. Let's get together, have a beer, eat some steak, talk about it, and figure out what we can do better moving forward. [1:14:01] Erin Redwing: Yep. Bitcoiners are still the highest signal group that I interact with. That's my indicator for when Bitcoin has failed is when I go to Bitcoin meetups and the people there don't have interesting, weird perspectives on the world that have led them to Bitcoin and led them to these very interesting conclusions about society that change my mind. Once we lose that and we lose these— if Bitcoin's not attracting those types of thinkers and keeping those types of people, then that's when I'm worried. But I had the same experience as you. I went to— it was more of an open-source AI summit, but it was hosted by Presidio Bitcoin, which is the Bitcoin coworking space in San Francisco. [1:15:03] Marty Bent: Yeah. And despite all this, the number is going up. That is the weirdest part about it all. [1:15:08] Erin Redwing: It's ridiculous. [1:15:12] Marty Bent: So that's Wacky world. It is a very wacky world. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you as always. [1:15:20] Erin Redwing: Thanks for having me. It's always great to chat. [1:15:22] Marty Bent: We'll do it again for 2027 predictions or what to look out for at the end of the year. [1:15:31] Erin Redwing: Totally. All right. Stay safe out there. [1:15:34] Marty Bent: Stay safe, freaks. Stay vigilant. Peace and love. [1:15:37] Erin Redwing: Take care.